Author Topic: Kapex KS 120 REB  (Read 3080 times)

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Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 704
Kapex KS 120 REB
« on: April 13, 2019, 07:25 AM »
Hi all, the latest Kapex KS 120 REB, on the previous model Kapex KS 120 EB, the EB means Electronic Brake if I remember correctly. So, REB, anybody know what the R means?
Re designed? Re vamped? Re paired?  [tongue]

I know it has the little side extensions etc, and hopefully some important updates, I can’t find reference to REB though?
I would appreciate any info.

Thank you kindly.

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Offline Distinctive Interiors

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Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #1 on: April 13, 2019, 09:55 AM »
I think it's just an extra letter added to the EB code to show it as an updated model JJ.

Festool did the same thing with the TS55. The previous model was a TS55 EB and the latest version is the TS55 REB.
Not sure what the R actually stands for....!

Offline Phil Beckley

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Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #2 on: April 13, 2019, 02:10 PM »
Hi
It’s a way of showing it’s a ‘renewed design’....
Rg
Phil
Festool U.K Employee | Festool UK Website


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 704
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2019, 06:05 PM »
Thank you both very much.

Offline Papalima

  • Posts: 21
    • KPL Creations
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2019, 10:18 AM »
Is there any update on when it will be available in the US?

Offline Cheese

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Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2019, 10:51 AM »
Is there any update on when it will be available in the US?

Haven't heard anything yet and if you look at the Festool 2019 catalog, the old EB model is the only one listed.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 704
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2019, 04:34 PM »
After wrestling with myself to decided, I went to the tool shop/store on Saturday morning, and as I got to the counter, they were just selling the last one  [blink]

Ordered one today, hopefully arriving tomorrow or Wednesday.  [thumbs up]

Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 436
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #7 on: April 16, 2019, 03:01 PM »
After wrestling with myself to decided, I went to the tool shop/store on Saturday morning, and as I got to the counter, they were just selling the last one  [blink]

Ordered one today, hopefully arriving tomorrow or Wednesday.  [thumbs up]

UG cart and wings?

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 704
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2019, 04:31 PM »
Hi Doug, Yes mate, and it arrived today but, I’ve only just got home. Can’t wait to give it a try out.
Glad I went with the UG set.

Thank you mate  [thumbs up]

Offline DrD

  • Posts: 416
  • I might not be fast BUT I sure am slow
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #9 on: May 28, 2019, 11:00 AM »
Do we know what specifically has been "revised" in the new "REB" and is it a retrofit to the old "EB"?
KS12 EB Kapex with Delta Folding Table & FastCap Best Fence; TS75 EQ with Parallel Guide Rail Set (FS-PA 495717 & FS-PA-VL 495718) and FS 800/2, 1080/2, 1400/2 LR32, 1400/2, 1900/2 Guide Rails, and Betterly SLC23 Straight Line Connector; DF500 Q with Assortment Systainer; OF1010 EQ with Fine Adjuster for Guide Stop, WA-OF Angle Arm, UP-OF Edging Plate and SF-OF Chip Deflector (486242); OF1400 EQ with OF1400 Dust Hood x 2, OF 1400  Edge Guide x 2, OF 1400  Guide Stop; LR32 Set; PSB399 EQ; EHL65 E; RAS115.04 E; RS2 E; ETS150/3 EQ; RO150 FEQ; Hand Sanding Block Set; CT26 with assortment of AS and Non-AS Hoses; MFT/3 Table x2; SysLite; Assortment of Quick & Screw Clamps, Consumables, Dogs.

Offline ChuckM

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Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2019, 11:06 AM »
I heard about these changes: a little heavier, and extension wings added to the side. No words about the motor itself. "Improved parts" have been mentioned when people sent in their old Kapexes for repairs, but what that really means if anyone's guess.

Festool has yet to release a 120V REB model.

Offline DrD

  • Posts: 416
  • I might not be fast BUT I sure am slow
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2019, 12:21 PM »
Yeah, about what I expected.  I've been away from FOG for over a year wherein I managed to cure myself from Festoolenvy - a dastardly consumption.  I saw a thread about a "new" Kapex, and wondered, no, hoped,  maybe - but to apparently no avail.

Thanks for getting me squared away on what's new and what's not, or maybe not (?).  Love my Kapex, I use it more that all my other Festool tools combined. AND have had to send it back once for armature replacement.  Since it is now long out of warranty I try to keep a positive thought, following Donald Sutherland's character in "Kelley's Heroes" - "like what's with all those negative vibes man?"

Have a great day.
KS12 EB Kapex with Delta Folding Table & FastCap Best Fence; TS75 EQ with Parallel Guide Rail Set (FS-PA 495717 & FS-PA-VL 495718) and FS 800/2, 1080/2, 1400/2 LR32, 1400/2, 1900/2 Guide Rails, and Betterly SLC23 Straight Line Connector; DF500 Q with Assortment Systainer; OF1010 EQ with Fine Adjuster for Guide Stop, WA-OF Angle Arm, UP-OF Edging Plate and SF-OF Chip Deflector (486242); OF1400 EQ with OF1400 Dust Hood x 2, OF 1400  Edge Guide x 2, OF 1400  Guide Stop; LR32 Set; PSB399 EQ; EHL65 E; RAS115.04 E; RS2 E; ETS150/3 EQ; RO150 FEQ; Hand Sanding Block Set; CT26 with assortment of AS and Non-AS Hoses; MFT/3 Table x2; SysLite; Assortment of Quick & Screw Clamps, Consumables, Dogs.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 704
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2019, 12:33 PM »
I think Cheese mentioned some updates in another thread?
They have base extensions for sure, are slightly heavier, still light for it’s size though.
I was told updated armatures, and control modules, and a few other little upgrades that Festool have stayed tight lipped about. Probably as an announcement might indicate that there were problem saws in the older model, when we all know this is a myth?  [tongue]

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6059
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #13 on: May 28, 2019, 01:31 PM »
Do we know what specifically has been "revised" in the new "REB" and is it a retrofit to the old "EB"?

A good way to check this is to go into the ekat and compare part numbers of the new and old Kapex. If many part numbers are the same you might be able to retrofit, but if it's all different you can't.

My experience with Festool's updated tools is that their parts are mostly not compatible with the older models.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 704
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2019, 03:11 PM »
Alex, I’m sure I recently read, or maybe I dreamt it? that sometimes if a part is swapped for a better or upgraded part by a manufacturer, they sometimes give that part the same number as the part it replaces. Providing that the part will fit older as well as newer machines, almost like a stealth upgrade?

Offline Alex

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Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2019, 04:16 PM »
Alex, I’m sure I recently read, or maybe I dreamt it? that sometimes if a part is swapped for a better or upgraded part by a manufacturer, they sometimes give that part the same number as the part it replaces. Providing that the part will fit older as well as newer machines, almost like a stealth upgrade?

Not my experience with Festool parts. New part, new number. And if they update even the slightest thing on a tool the entire tool gets a new catalogue number.

There was a time I was perusing the eKat on a daily basis, for some years I was very heavily into buying used and broken Festools, refurbishing them, and selling them off again. You will find many examples in the ekat of seemingly identical parts for identical tools which still have a different part number, Festool is very methodical and consistent there.

- Anyway, back to context in which I meant my comment above, considering backwards compatibility of new parts with the older Kapex, it might be possible if you see that the new Kapex has mostly the same parts as the older, except for a few. But if the parts of the new Kapex are totally different, you'll see lots and lots of new part numbers, and you can be sure the new parts are not in any way backwards compatible.

eKat can tell you a lot if you dig into it.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 704
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2019, 04:45 PM »
Ok, thank you Alex.

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 550
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2019, 10:05 PM »
Alex, I’m sure I recently read, or maybe I dreamt it? that sometimes if a part is swapped for a better or upgraded part by a manufacturer, they sometimes give that part the same number as the part it replaces. Providing that the part will fit older as well as newer machines, almost like a stealth upgrade?

Proper engineering practice is if you break  "form/fit/function" you must give a new part number.  If you completely redesign the item, but it is fully interchangeable with anything that used the original part and in no way takes it backwards in capability, then you can re-use the PN. It would be a new rev,  so 1234567 rev B instead of rev A.  The part may carry a rev letter on it, but the documentation, purchase order, etc would likely just have the base number.  Generally you try to avoid new PNs, it means you have to go back thru and update a lot of manufacturing documents, manuals, "ekat" (for festool), etc.  That cost time and money.

Nothing truly stops a new number from being assigned, engineering folks often head down that path, it's all the other functions (manufacturing, procurement, etc) which will put a stop to it if they can.

How Festool rolls with this is not clear to me, when I have looked at some things in the past in the Ekat I could find good patterns to how they roll. 

Since we don't know what the issue was with Kapex,  looking for PN changes would probably have limited results.  You don't know if parts were causes or victims of the problem.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6286
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #18 on: May 29, 2019, 01:13 AM »
Proper engineering practice is if you break  "form/fit/function" you must give a new part number. 

DeformedTree has pretty well hit this discussion at the 98%+ level.

Form, fit & function is the mantra ingrained into the psyche of designers & engineers and it's learned from the initial git-go...it's one of the first educational steps learned.  Part number revision level change is the indicator of a minor design change while part number change is the indicator of a major design change. That's pretty much the standard throughout the industry.

So interestingly enough, Festool still lists the same individual part numbers used on both the old Kapex and the new Kapex on the EKAT site yet they don't list the revision level changes to those part numbers. To the uninitiated, this may seem as nothing's changed, however buried within the revision level significant changes may have evolved, even though the new part passes the fit, form & function test.

Having worked in the semiconductor arena for over 30 years we took a more transparent position. As a matter of courtesy to our customers, we would in the bill of materials (BOM) list the old part number and then also use the symbol R/B (replaced by) to introduce the new part number even if the new part passed the FF&F test. That way significant changes were duly noted.
 
So, if the customer looked at the original BOM and it read 12345 (R/B 12346), that would indicate to him/her that a significant manufacturing change had transpired. This approach was a simple heads-up for in-house manufacturing and a reassurance to the customer that their desired/requested/needed change had happened. A win-win for both parties.

My initial thought is that Festool is not quite so transparent in their new Kapex introduction. I really hope they prove me wrong.
« Last Edit: May 29, 2019, 09:24 AM by Cheese »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 704
Re: Kapex KS 120 REB
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2019, 03:09 PM »
DT and Cheese, thanks for the explanation. I think the bit about the same part number with a revision of A or B etc is probably what I was thinking of.

Also Cheese, I agree about the New and old Kapex parts, some transparency would be welcomed. As I suggested before though, this might give clear indication that there was/is a problem with some saws.
Despite many customers or potential customers, clearly knowing there is in fact a problem, or at least the risk of a problem, Festool continue to play it down.
Crazy really, anyway, thanks for the explanation and info.