Author Topic: Ks60 (Read 2997 times)

glass1 · « **on:** January 10, 2019, 07:11 PM »

Why no 120 volt version for USA. Probably because Festool makes less profit on it and it would cut into ks 120 sales. I have heard of no ks60 120 volt burnouts from the uk. Come on Festool get your head out of the sand and give us the good tools.

Peter Halle · « **Reply #1 on:** January 10, 2019, 07:36 PM »

Quote from: glass1 on January 10, 2019, 07:11 PM

Why no 120 volt version for USA. Probably because Festool makes less profit on it and it would cut into ks 120 sales. I have heard of no ks60 120 volt burnouts from the uk. Come on Festool get your head out of the sand and give us the good tools.

I haven't heard about the KS60 being available here at all. Maybe I missed something? Perhaps internal marketing research showed that the KS60 and also the stripped down bigger Kapex wouldn't be successful enough here to justify the additional costs to develop for and certify here?

Peter

glass1 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 10, 2019, 08:01 PM »

Like I said corporate profits trump all.

Birdhunter · « **Reply #3 on:** January 10, 2019, 08:44 PM »

Without corporate profits there are no corporate investors and, before long, no corporation and no products.

glass1 · « **Reply #4 on:** January 10, 2019, 09:06 PM »

Apologist

Peter Halle · « **Reply #5 on:** January 10, 2019, 09:11 PM »

Quote from: glass1 on January 10, 2019, 08:01 PM

Like I said corporate profits trump all.

I have always assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that you owned a company that did glass storefronts and automatically doors. Irreguardless, Perhaps, because of perceived demand that company should be also looking into mobilizing into replacing single pane window glass in double hung windows. Set up a whole division with multiple crews and new vans.

It’s just business.

Peter

Alex · « **Reply #6 on:** January 11, 2019, 02:51 AM »

I do not understand how not releasing a saw would mean more corporate profits. But that's just me.

Birdhunter · « **Reply #7 on:** January 11, 2019, 05:27 AM »

In the businesses that I’ve been in, there is a considerable lag time between the first sale of a product and the time our investment in designing, setting up a production line, testing, and setting up a sales system is made back. Only when all the investments have been made back is there a profit.

Also, the US has a unique legal system where the manufacturers are held liable for damages if the product causes harm even if the user is doing something incredibly stupid. That’s one reason manufacturers are cautious about releasing a new tool into the US.

glass1 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 11, 2019, 06:00 AM »

Quote from: Alex on January 11, 2019, 02:51 AM

I do not understand how not releasing a saw would mean more corporate profits. But that's just me......If Festool thought releasing it to USA market would increase profits they would release it.

lerabotperche · « **Reply #9 on:** January 11, 2019, 07:24 AM »

Quote from: Birdhunter on January 11, 2019, 05:27 AM

Also, the US has a unique legal system where the manufacturers are held liable for damages if the product causes harm even if the user is doing something incredibly stupid.

The advertisement on the side of tools makes the world smile everyday. Around the world, we belive there is a true story behind all theses advertisements.

Birdhunter · « **Reply #10 on:** January 11, 2019, 09:53 AM »

The most amusing one for me is the warning to not eat the desiccant packets that are in the shipping boxes.

Richard/RMW · « **Reply #11 on:** January 11, 2019, 10:02 AM »

Quote from: Birdhunter on January 11, 2019, 09:53 AM

The most amusing one for me is the warning to not eat the desiccant packets that are in the shipping boxes.

They overlooked the warning to not hit yourself in the head with the tool...

RMW

Alex · « **Reply #12 on:** January 11, 2019, 11:20 AM »

Quote from: Birdhunter on January 11, 2019, 09:53 AM

The most amusing one for me is the warning to not eat the desiccant packets that are in the shipping boxes.

I just bought some Sigma paint yesterday form our local Sigma Service Centre. Since a couple of years the Dutch brand Sigma is owned by the American company PPG.

To my surprise on the receipt I got it said I was not allowed to use this paint to paint any facilities where chemical, biological or nuclear arms were made.

I thought this was very funny and very sad at the same time.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #13 on:** January 11, 2019, 12:45 PM »

Quote from: Birdhunter on January 11, 2019, 09:53 AM

The most amusing one for me is the warning to not eat the desiccant packets that are in the shipping boxes.

He don't dis them till you try them, tasty and reduce bloating.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #14 on:** January 11, 2019, 12:49 PM »

Quote from: Alex on January 11, 2019, 11:20 AM

I just bought some Sigma paint yesterday form our local Sigma Service Centre. Since a couple of years the Dutch brand Sigma is owned by the American company PPG.

To my surprise on the receipt I got it said I was not allowed to use this paint to paint any facilities where chemical, biological or nuclear arms were made.

I thought this was very funny and very sad at the same time.

They don't want you complaining when the paint fails and they want you to buy proper CARC paint.

rst · « **Reply #15 on:** January 11, 2019, 08:32 PM »

Peter, I think you may be thinking of me. I do commercial glazing, automatic doors, locksmithing and plastic fabrication. I wood butcher as a hobby, all my house trim is quarter sawn oak that I made. Started out as a finisher and branched out form there is the last 50 years.

Peter Halle · « **Reply #16 on:** January 11, 2019, 08:47 PM »

Quote from: rst on January 11, 2019, 08:32 PM

Peter, I think you may be thinking of me. I do commercial glazing, automatic doors, locksmithing and plastic fabrication. I wood butcher as a hobby, all my house trim is quarter sawn oak that I made. Started out as a finisher and branched out form there is the last 50 years.

Thank you for that.

Peter

SRSemenza · « **Reply #17 on:** January 11, 2019, 11:52 PM »

Quote from: Alex on January 11, 2019, 11:20 AM

Quote from: Birdhunter on January 11, 2019, 09:53 AM
The most amusing one for me is the warning to not eat the desiccant packets that are in the shipping boxes.

I just bought some Sigma paint yesterday form our local Sigma Service Centre. Since a couple of years the Dutch brand Sigma is owned by the American company PPG.

To my surprise on the receipt I got it said I was not allowed to use this paint to paint any facilities where chemical, biological or nuclear arms were made.

I thought this was very funny and very sad at the same time.

You should take it back and tell them you want to return it because you were planning to use it for your arms plant but didn't see the warning until after purchase.

Seth

Untidy Shop · « **Reply #18 on:** January 12, 2019, 09:00 AM »

Returning to the KS60, it's great both in accuracy and ease of use.

If you have plenty of time to waste here researching old FOG threads you will see I was critical of the saw when it was first released in Australia (and before I bought one). My main criticism - having to pay extra for larger base legs to enable a Systainer to provide support for material being cut - is still valid. See photograph. The saw base and legs should have been designed to allow this in the first place. My other criticism of no blade brake - well there is no brake but due to the gearing and a belt drive the blade does stop very quickly,

As to why not yet in the US - profit perceptions, 110Volts and variable power supplies, certification and public liability issues. They're all probably in the mix. But maybe one day: who knows outside of Festool HQ..

DeformedTree · « **Reply #19 on:** January 12, 2019, 12:29 PM »

What exactly is the appeal of the KS60? I see it's 5.3kg (11.7lb) lighter, which would to me be the biggest reason if you move saws around a lot. But to be fair the KS120 is ~50lbs which isn't too bad.

If you aren't moving it around all the time or lugging into houses, I'm struggling to see the use for it. Maybe this is the basic answer, maybe most folks in N.A. are like me and look at the situation as "why would you get anything but a 12" sliding compound" basically why wouldn't you get the biggest, most capable one you can. I'd think the only real constraint would be moving it around. I can see if you say are a flooring installer and just need something to do small cross cuts, but then why not just by a small cheap saw (granted dust collection may be a valid reason why).

I'd overall guess that Festool has looked at the N.A. market and the answer is like many products where the N.A. market isn't exactly space constrained. Big houses, big vehicles, etc. So making a product a bit smaller/lighter may be appreciated by some, it's going to get shrugged off by most folks.

glass1 · « **Reply #20 on:** January 12, 2019, 02:13 PM »

60 degrees both directions, no known blue smoke, cheaper blades, smaller and lighter. We might build big houses but moving a giant saw all around to smaller tasks or punch out is well heavy. Shadow line

DeformedTree · « **Reply #21 on:** January 13, 2019, 12:25 AM »

Quote from: glass1 on January 12, 2019, 02:13 PM

60 degrees both directions,

Build less pointy houses

I wouldn't use the smoke as a basis, as thats not a part of it's intended design/feature set and hopefully will be resolved with the new one.

It just doesn't seam like it is a whole lot smaller or lighter. I agree with what you said that moving it around and working thru punch list is where you want a small light saw. I'm just trying to see how it's a particularly big difference from the KS120. Obviously I can't go see one in person. Looking online it doesn't look to be that much smaller.

Intex · « **Reply #22 on:** January 13, 2019, 01:54 AM »

I got tired of waiting for it to come to 5he us, so I just ordered online and had it shipped here
So far it works great, did not have the room for the 120

Cheese · « **Reply #23 on:** January 13, 2019, 11:23 AM »

After reading this post and doing some research, the KS 60 appears to be a great little saw.

And once I finish building the garage, I could see trading in the 120 version for the 60.

It's even smaller and lighter in weight than the KS 120. I never really enjoyed lugging around an 80# miter saw so I purchased the KS 120. This could be my next step in downsizing without losing much if anything.

For the stuff I've left to finish, cedar siding, cedar trim, oak/maple strip flooring, interior trim and it's still capable of cutting 2x material, it'd work well. If I were into cutting boards and picture framing it would also work well for that.

There's also a complete lineup of blades available for it including one for aluminum.

https://www.festool.co.uk/products/sawing/sliding-compound-mitre-saws/561685---ks-60-e-gb-110v

Here's a great shot of it's strong suit...try going through that tight scaffold opening with a conventional 80 pounder.

glass1 · « **Reply #24 on:** January 15, 2019, 07:32 PM »

Now that the new kapex is 4 lbs heavier at 51 lbs that’s another compelling reason the ks60 is interesting. I hope some of the 4 lbs is beefier armature.

Scorpion · « **Reply #25 on:** January 15, 2019, 09:58 PM »

Quote from: Intex on January 13, 2019, 01:54 AM

I got tired of waiting for it to come to 5he us, so I just ordered online and had it shipped here
So far it works great, did not have the room for the 120

Thought I’d read somewhere that there’s differences in power needs for the motor and tuning one here could damage it. Anyone recall specifically?

DeformedTree · « **Reply #26 on:** January 15, 2019, 10:23 PM »

Quote from: Cheese on January 13, 2019, 11:23 AM

Here's a great shot of it's strong suit...try going through that tight scaffold opening with a conventional 80 pounder.

(Attachment Link)

Person is just showing off. If he takes the saw up there lets see him drag a turning lathe for some porch spindles or a cabinet saw for cutting some plywood up there too. Be consistent!

DeformedTree · « **Reply #27 on:** January 15, 2019, 10:26 PM »

Quote from: glass1 on January 15, 2019, 07:32 PM

Now that the new kapex is 4 lbs heavier at 51 lbs that’s another compelling reason the ks60 is interesting. I hope some of the 4 lbs is beefier armature.

Do we know the weight of the new one. The old one was 50.

4lbs of armature would mean they could move the wattage up a magnitude. No matter, i'd be shocked if Festool doesn't throw everything they can at making sure the motors are solid.

glass1 · « **Reply #28 on:** January 16, 2019, 05:11 AM »

Current model is 47 lbs. new 51. I consider 50 lbs a threshold.

DeformedTree · « **Reply #29 on:** January 16, 2019, 10:32 PM »

Quote from: glass1 on January 16, 2019, 05:11 AM

Current model is 47 lbs. new 51. I consider 50 lbs a threshold.

Festool UK and Festool Germany says the KS 120 (either voltage) is 23.1kg (50.8lbs) Festool USA says a KS 120 is 21.5kg (47.3lbs my conversion, 47.4lbs their conversion).

I don't know where you are getting 51lbs for the new one, I don't think we have seen a spec sheet that gives it. But festool themselves disagrees on the weight of a KS 120. I will side with the homeland and say the current one is 23.1kg (51lbs), and if the new one is 51lbs, then the weight it un-changed.