Author Topic: TS 55 in new CMS router table?  (Read 14332 times)

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Offline eruzich

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TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« on: September 21, 2012, 02:35 AM »
Does anybody know if the CMS router table can be used with the ts55 bench saw module?



Forum Moderator Note

Warning: The Festool CMS System is approved for use with only the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers in the US and Canadian markets.  It is not approved for use with the OF 2200, nor with any of the CMS modules currently available outside the US and Canadian markets (TS, Jigsaw and sanding modules).  Festool USA does not  endorse the use of these components and will not support them with spare  parts or repairs. The use of anything other than the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers and their related accessories with the CMS will void the warranty agreement on the entire system for customers within the US and Canada. Festool does not endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual.
« Last Edit: October 21, 2012, 01:21 PM by Peter Halle »

Festool USA does not pre-approve the contents of this website nor endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual. Although Festool strives for accuracy in the website material, the website may contain inaccuracies. Festool makes no representations about the accuracy, reliability, completeness or timeliness of the material on this website or about the results to be obtained from using the website. Festool and its affiliates cannot be responsible for improper postings or your reliance on the website's material. Your use of any material contained on this website is entirely at your own risk. The content contained on this site is provided for informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice.


Offline Alan m

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2012, 03:04 AM »
yes same base unit , different insert. but NAINA
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty."
- Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965)

Offline ccarrolladams

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2012, 03:09 AM »
Does anybody know if the CMS router table can be used with the ts55 bench saw module?

At this time, in North America, the CMS is only approved for use with the OF1010 and the OF1400 routers. Therefore Festool USA only sells the module which can accept those routers.

In many countries Festool does sell modules for the TS55/TS75 and the jig saws. In some countries there is an available module for a belt sander. The word from Shane at Festool USA is to not expect to use the OF2200 in the NA CMS soon.

Because of regulatory pressure to require new table saws to have flesh detecting auto shut down (similar to StopSaw) it is unrealistic to hope for approval of a module to accept the TS55 or TS75 in North America.

Please understand that even if it is possible to bring a TS module into the USA, it is not approved for use in North America. Eruzich list his location as California. Should an employer allow an employee to use an unlisted, non-approved tool in the State of California, that would void the workers comp insurance required and also would leave that employer open to criminal prosecution.

So before following advice to take a large empty suitcase to Europe, consider the consequences of such an unauthorized importation.

Of course in California a hobbyist would not be prosecuted for using an unauthorized tool personally, but could be prosecuted if a friend or relative were to be hurt while using such a tool. The homeowners liability insurance policy would be voided. So consider this carefully.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2012, 04:25 AM by ccarrolladams »

Offline Reiska

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2012, 04:06 AM »
Take a large suitcase with you next time you visit the UK or Germany - the TS55 insert isn't large or heavy since it comes with a MFT-like detachable fence/protractor combo and the clips to fit it onto the saw are light too.



Fits nicely into a large suitcase.  [big grin]
The sky's the limit in my workshop, literally. [big grin]

Offline fshanno

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2012, 11:16 AM »

Please understand that even if it is possible to bring a TS module into the USA, it is not approved for use in North America. Eruzich list his location as California. Should an employer allow an employee to use an unlisted, non-approved tool in the State of California, that would void the workers comp insurance required and also would leave that employer open to criminal prosecution.


What do "unlisted" and "non-approved" mean?
The one thing we learn from history is that we never learn from history.

Offline ccarrolladams

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #5 on: September 21, 2012, 01:57 PM »
Like most states, regulations for worker safety are found in many places.

Even in the Industrial Safety Orders, the terms "not-listed" and "unauthorized" seem to be used to mean the same thing, in random ways.

Generally "listed" means listed by UL, but in some cases listed by CSA is valid. Also for decades the City of Los Angeles ran an inspection service within the Department of Building and Safety. Listing by that lab was accepted for certain categories of industrial equipment, especially in the entertainment industries.

Should you have questions about how use of unauthorized or non-listed tools will affect your workers comp insurance policy, my suggestion is to have a talk with a representative of that company.

The current CAL/OSHA regulations are based upon the Industrial Safety Orders. Refinements have been added to include equipment not invented back in the old days.

At least the good news is such regulations do not apply to the personal hobby users. However, when a non-listed tool is used by anyone except the owner, liability can attach, which often will void a homeowners insurance policy.

Offline fritter63

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #6 on: September 21, 2012, 05:37 PM »


What do "unlisted" and "non-approved" mean?


They are synonyms for "nanny state"...

Offline tallgrass

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2012, 11:27 PM »
We can now only do what we are allowed to do!!!! [mad] [mad] [mad] it is sad.

Offline Nigel

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2012, 12:40 AM »


What do "unlisted" and "non-approved" mean?


They are synonyms for "nanny state"...

Or ''fascist regime''...

Offline sfay

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2012, 08:48 AM »


What do "unlisted" and "non-approved" mean?


They are synonyms for "nanny state"...

Or ''fascist regime''...

I think it has more to do with our litigious society than anything else.  Nothing can ever go wrong without blame being assigned to someone.

Offline tallgrass

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2012, 06:26 PM »
Actually I would argue that when people call others socialist they really mean fascist. This is because of private means of production but government control. Not always but I would argue most of the time and there is always a matter of degree.

Offline fritter63

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2012, 06:48 PM »


I think it has more to do with our litigious society than anything else.  Nothing can ever go wrong without blame being assigned to someone.

Yeah, whenever something bad happens, it's expected that steps are taken to prevent that from EVER happening again. It's madness. Obviously, there are cases of legitimate negligence, but sometimes.... sh***t happens.

I still think it's a nanny state, whatever the driver for it.

Offline Eli

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2012, 08:09 PM »
I never worked a big/union site when in Cali, only remodels, but in AU, tools have to be tagged by a licensed Electrician either quarterly or yearly depending on the use.

Worksafe makes periodic jobsite inspections, and an untagged tool would excite a lot more interest than a worktop insert. They're monkeys, they look for the right color sticker and don't care about anything that isn't mentioned in the rulebook.

So if I did something like cut off the plug and mount a new one it could still be certified for legal use. The insert, being unpowered, wouldn't matter as long as the tool itself is legal.

Legally I wouldn't think the insert would be a bigger deal than using a contractor (say Dewalt) type saw with the guard removed, which still happens all the time. Even though the insert isn't approved for use there, it is not unsafe, and could be proven so by the fact that it is in approved use in the rest of the world.

I doubt it was a question of whether it is actually safe but whether it can compete in the market with a huge class of sub $400 contractor saws. I know from use that you can dial it in with extension wings all round and a better fence to go up against a much bigger saw while still being job portable.

But if I didn't know, and was weighing up the purchase against the Dewalt, which I've owned, I might go with the Dewalt (or maybe the Bosch), for a bunch of reasons having nothing to do with safety. Just my thoughts.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2012, 08:37 PM »
Please forgive me for the bluntness that follows.  I really am a Hostess Twinky at heart,

A TS saw in a CMS is miles away here in the US.  Product liability is the reality.

Buy from elsewhere, take the risk - up to you.  Don't expect anyone to officially acknowledge you or answer any questions.  No warranty coverage either.

Peter

Offline tallgrass

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #14 on: September 22, 2012, 10:40 PM »
Are theses available in Canada?

Offline jobsworth

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2012, 12:49 AM »


What do "unlisted" and "non-approved" mean?


They are synonyms for "nanny state"...

or Kalif
Or ''fascist regime''...

Offline sfay

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #16 on: September 23, 2012, 08:59 AM »


What do "unlisted" and "non-approved" mean?


They are synonyms for "nanny state"...


or Kalif
Or ''fascist regime''...

Kalif?  A little known fact was that the last caliph (whose reign ended when the Ottoman Empire dissolved at the conclusion of WW1) was actively promoting safer tablesaws.   [tongue]

Offline JimB1

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #17 on: September 23, 2012, 09:47 AM »
I just find this really funny. When I was a kid my Dad had (probably still has) a table for turning a circular saw into a tablesaw. It was something he bought at Hechingers or Rickles or one of those other old hardware chains that Home Depot and Lowes shut down... It was a piece of junk made of thin steel and hardboard with a few supports and sold for something like $30. It used any circular saw you had lying around and just had 4 bolts and a couple of plates to hold the circular saw in place to the underside of the table. It actually did have a blade guard of cheap plastic and a miter gauge, also of plastic and cast metal.

Look how far we've come... LOL
-Jim
TS55 REQ, MFT/3, OF 1010, RO 150, ETS 150/3, RTS-400, rectangle sanding block, Pocket StickFix Sanding Block and a CT Midi...

Offline fritter63

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #18 on: September 23, 2012, 10:26 AM »
Similarly, I'm sure I've seen plans long ago in one of the hobby mags (FWW?) to build a wooden version of this.

Offline RonWen

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #19 on: September 23, 2012, 01:13 PM »
It would be interesting and possibly even entertaining to sit in on a few Festool strategic marketing meetings where the TS and OF22 modules are discussed.  [unsure]

Most people are aware that UPS and the postal service drivers get "spanked" for using the reverse gear in their trucks too much.  I understand someone high in the postal service initiated an investigation of what it would cost to remove/disable reverse gear in all of their trucks...  [eek]  Unfortunately, some of those high thinkers creep into the other government branches.   [scared]

Offline Eli

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2012, 07:00 AM »
I just find this really funny. When I was a kid my Dad had (probably still has) a table for turning a circular saw into a tablesaw. It was something he bought at Hechingers or Rickles or one of those other old hardware chains that Home Depot and Lowes shut down... It was a piece of junk made of thin steel and hardboard with a few supports and sold for something like $30. It used any circular saw you had lying around and just had 4 bolts and a couple of plates to hold the circular saw in place to the underside of the table. It actually did have a blade guard of cheap plastic and a miter gauge, also of plastic and cast metal.

Look how far we've come... LOL
-Jim

we still have something very similar in Australia, called the Triton.
Do nothing, stay ahead.

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2012, 07:50 AM »


What do "unlisted" and "non-approved" mean?


They are synonyms for "nanny state"...

 [thumbs up]  Too true!   [thumbs up] 
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline Frank Pellow

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2012, 07:54 AM »
Are theses available in Canada?

I'm sorry to say NO.  We seem to blindly follow the USA with silly restrictions like this one.
« Last Edit: October 19, 2012, 02:46 PM by Frank Pellow »
Cheers,   
               Frank (Festool connoisseur)

Offline lambeater

  • Posts: 481
Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2012, 09:28 PM »
I just find this really funny. When I was a kid my Dad had (probably still has) a table for turning a circular saw into a tablesaw. It was something he bought at Hechingers or Rickles or one of those other old hardware chains that Home Depot and Lowes shut down... It was a piece of junk made of thin steel and hardboard with a few supports and sold for something like $30. It used any circular saw you had lying around and just had 4 bolts and a couple of plates to hold the circular saw in place to the underside of the table. It actually did have a blade guard of cheap plastic and a miter gauge, also of plastic and cast metal.

Look how far we've come... LOL
-Jim

we still have something very similar in Australia, called the Triton.

Hey that was my first table saw when I lived in New Zealand. Had an 8 1/4 AEG saw mounted in it. Could also flip the lid and crosscut. Also had the router table and I think jigsaw to go with it. It did serve me well until I came to CANADA.

Lambeater

Offline Peter Durand

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #24 on: October 21, 2012, 11:40 AM »
Are theses available in Canada?

Nope. This country is even more nanny state than California. Things have to be CSA "approved". Let me tell you a story. A few years ago an unnamed university bought a machine from Germany that was going to be used the physics lab. But it didn't have the CSA "approval". So they couldn't plug it in and turn it on.  No one at CSA had a clue what it was supposed to do let alone how it was made. This was cutting edge very advanced stuff to test things thought out in theoretical physics. To make a long story short, the man from CSA arrived with his briefcase and when a check (about $10K) made out to CSA was handed over, the approval paper along with a sticker was handed over. No inspection, nothing.

Such is life.

*sigh*

Peter

Offline Peter Durand

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2012, 11:45 AM »
Please forgive me for the bluntness that follows.  I really am a Hostess Twinky at heart,

A TS saw in a CMS is miles away here in the US.  Product liability is the reality.

Buy from elsewhere, take the risk - up to you.  Don't expect anyone to officially acknowledge you or answer any questions.  No warranty coverage either.

Peter


Hmmm. It appears that Festool must sell some very unsafe stuff to folks in the rest of the world. Just saying...    :)

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2012, 01:19 PM »
Threads about the use of modules for the CMS not approved for use in North America will have this posted within that thread:


Forum Moderator Note

Warning: The Festool CMS System is approved for use with only the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers in the US and Canadian markets.  It is not approved for use with the OF 2200, nor with any of the CMS modules currently available outside the US and Canadian markets (TS, Jigsaw and sanding modules).  Festool USA does not  endorse the use of these components and will not support them with spare  parts or repairs. The use of anything other than the OF 1400 and OF 1010 routers and their related accessories with the CMS will void the warranty agreement on the entire system for customers within the US and Canada. Festool does not endorse the application or use of any Festool product in any way other than in the manner described in the Festool Instruction Manual. To reduce the risk of serious injury and/or damage to your Festool product, always read, understand and follow all warnings and instructions in your Festool product's Instruction Manual.


Peter

Offline BrotherBrian

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2012, 01:31 PM »
Please forgive me for the bluntness that follows.  I really am a Hostess Twinky at heart,

A TS saw in a CMS is miles away here in the US.  Product liability is the reality.

Buy from elsewhere, take the risk - up to you.  Don't expect anyone to officially acknowledge you or answer any questions.  No warranty coverage either.

Peter


Hmmm. It appears that Festool must sell some very unsafe stuff to folks in the rest of the world. Just saying...    :)

I'm putting my life in danger by posting this, but I can't remain quiet any longer.

Festool, in conspiracy with the imperialistic US government created the TS55 insert for the specific purpose of disabling a good portion of European males.   This is a prelude to an armed invasion of Europe by US forces. 

The idea is to have millions of Europeans lop their thumbs/fingers/hands off so that they won't be able to operate firearms correctly, nor will they be able to type resistance messages on the internet.  Festool is actually a CIA front.

This information may seem incredible to many, but I can assure all readers that my source is a reliable internet guy who also exposed the fact that all government officials are reptiles.

I now have to go back into hiding in my mother's basement.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2012, 02:09 PM »
We Europeans (hate that expression - I am British) have nothing to fear. I was a marksman with every infantry weapon in the British Army and I still have enough digits to fight back!

The real reason that the TS CMS unit is not available became clear to me a couple of years ago - I watched the Johnny Cash film. Cash's brother was using a table saw.

Peter

Offline Sparktrician

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Re: TS 55 in new CMS router table?
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2012, 02:13 PM »
The idea is to have millions of Europeans lop their thumbs/fingers/hands off so that they won't be able to operate firearms correctly, nor will they be able to type resistance messages on the internet.  Festool is actually a CIA front.


Seems that this might be related to the story about "pluck yew"...

 [scared]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young