Author Topic: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar  (Read 1416 times)

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6383
TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« on: May 10, 2019, 12:45 PM »
I'm breaking down some aromatic cedar slabs to eventually re-saw into 1/4" thick strips. The cedar is 1 3/4" to 1 7/8" thick and I'm using a new Panther rip blade on a TSC 55 to remove the wane. In a couple of places the TSC started to lose rpm and made a funny sound.

After the cut I examined the cedar and found these blade marks. The part that's really puzzling is if you look closely at the first 2 photos, there are several "rippled" areas where the wood looks to be compressed or abraided. It certainly isn't being cut.

I was just using the dust bag on the TSC and am wondering if maybe the dust evacuation wasn't thorough enough and the blade was binding up and abraiding the surface rather than cutting it.

Has anyone seen this before?





« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 01:40 PM by Cheese »

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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4170
Re: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2019, 02:21 PM »
Can’t explain the non-cutting aspect.

Occasionally when ripping I let the thickness of the work dictate the blade choice and if I use the Panther blade I always regret it.

Mine is one of the first (maybe it’s been improved) but I wish I’d tossed in the recycling bin long ago. It not only randomly wiggles but trashes the splinter guard too. Feed rate and consistency of the wood doesn’t seem to be a factor.

The Combination blade I have for 55 saws cuts very well considering the tooth count. The stock blade on my HKC cuts much better than my Panther.

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1719
Re: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2019, 05:06 PM »
My guess is as the motor speed dropped you ended up with those artifacts.  I would try to sort out why the motor speed dropped.  To test the theory, can you make the cut in two passes, each being 1" of material and then see if you see have those artifacts?
-Raj

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6383
Re: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« Reply #3 on: May 11, 2019, 02:24 AM »
Well I decided to follow Michael's lead here because it made sense... and I was rewarded mightly.

In my previous post, the Panther blade for the TSC was brand new and the batteries were both 5.2 amp models fully charged. On the first of many rip cuts I noticed the issues I previously described and decided to take another thin cut just to make sure. The second rip cut actually turned out worse than the first cut.  [sad]  Consequently, I put the lumber and the saw away to try to figure out the problem.

Michael's HKC suggestion had a lot of merit so I decided to try it. Luckily, I also had a brand new Panther rip blade for the HKC.

So, here's a shot of the results of a HKC, a new Panther blade with a dust bag trimming off the edge already created by a TSC, a new Panther blade with a dust bag.

The strip on the bottom is the new HKC cut, while the strip on the top is the one previously cut/examined using the TSC.



Those weird wavy compressed marks no longer exist and the surface is noticeably smoother. Interestingly enough, I never recharged the batteries but just grabbed one of the already used ones from the TSC and slid it into place in the HKC.

Interesting fact number 2...The HKC with a used 5.2 battery more easily ripped the cedar than the TSC with 2 freshly charged batteries. There was never the slowdown of the blade speed experienced with the TSC. If you provided a nearly constant force behind the HKC, it continued to cut without any dramatic speed changes as opposed to the TSC.

I assume the difference in cutting ease is because of the thinner kerf, 2.2 mm vs 1.8 mm. I don't know if that's the real reason however it's a place to start a conversation. As manufacturing processes become better, there become better options available.

This reminds me of the table saw issues years ago when the standard kerf was originally .125" versus when the new kerf size changed to .093".

« Last Edit: May 11, 2019, 02:32 AM by Cheese »

Offline ear3

  • Posts: 3884
Re: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« Reply #4 on: May 11, 2019, 07:30 AM »
Huh, an interesting research project you got going on there @Cheese .  I was going to say that the blade marks seems curiously coincident with the switchback of the grain following the knot in the wood.  But after the successful test with the thinner kerf HKC, it looks like you might have found the soft spot in the TSC's capabilities.

I have the panther blade for the TSC, but I don't think I've ever had to use it, as I've always had good results even when ripping at max thickness with the combination blade.  For the TS75 however, the panther blade has been essential.  I only have to break it out when ripping above 2 1/4 or 2 3/8, but it makes a noticeable difference, putting the motor under less strain and making for a much easier cut.
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Offline glass1

  • Posts: 546
Re: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« Reply #5 on: May 11, 2019, 07:35 AM »
Because the ts 75 is underpowered for its capacity

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1719
Re: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2019, 07:55 AM »
Do you have a way to check the run out on the TSC panther blade?  Do any of the teeth look odd to you?  While the kerf is thinner on the HKC, in use the TSC still has more power with the two batteries.

I bet the shop smells great with all this testing!   [tongue]
-Raj

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6383
Re: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2019, 10:17 AM »
I've ripped 1 1/2" thick maple, walnut & Jatoba before with the TSC & 28 tooth blade and never really had an issue. This 1 7/8" thick aromatic cedar however really did max out the depth of cut. Both the TSC & the HKC are set for max depth. Having this issue while cutting cedar caused some alarm, that's the reason I put things away and just thought about it while I was doing other projects.

Pondering over it made me realize that the largest cause for concern is that I originally used the standard 28 tooth TSC blade on the cedar with limited results. In one cut I literally could not push it through the cedar. That's what prompted me to swap out blades.

Then I decided to look at the Janka hardness level. Northern cedar and red cedar are 320/350. Aromatic cedar is 900, that's in the territory of certain maple, cherry & mahogany.  [eek]  No wonder I'm having issues, I just assumed cedar was cedar.

For your question Raj, yes I can check the runout. I'll mount the blade on the lathe and attach an indicator. I'll be cleaning the pitch from all 4 blades so I will also give them a good visual inspection.

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4170
Re: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2019, 10:39 AM »
The problem with my Panther blade is that it will start shuddering for no discernible reason. When that happens the actual kerf can increase more than 50%, way beyond the extra margin that would be expected by a little runout.

Offline Frank-Jan

  • Posts: 1044
  • Dutch Canadian living in Belgium
Re: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2019, 01:04 PM »
I've had similar blade marks at random locations during a cut when cutting 18mm wbp exteriorplywood with ready-for-paint-coating when using the universal blade on my ts55.
At the time, some years ago, there was a thread about someone complaining about play in the plunge mechanism of the ts55, and he fixed it by adding a thin plastic washer somewhere. (I have been searching for the topic since I saw your post, but I can't find it.

I figured that in my case, the problem was caused by that play/slop, and the different angle on the face of the teeth on the sawblade (universal vs 48 t). When I switched to the 48 t blade, the problem was gone, so I didn't bother trying the fix,

Since the HKC doesn't have the problem with the same sawblade, I think that's another indication that that might be the cause here aswell.

Offline White

  • Posts: 10
Re: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« Reply #10 on: May 28, 2019, 11:09 PM »
If you are milling thicker lumber it is wise to invest in a joiner, planer, drum sander.  At least a planer will remove incremental high/low points and leave a smooth finish.  Portble benchtop planers are very reasonable these days.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6383
Re: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2019, 01:23 AM »
I have a jointer & a planer so eliminating these marks is minor...my original question was had anyone seen these marks before while ripping with a TS/TSC 55 saw.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1289
Re: TSC 55 Blade Marks in Aromatic Cedar
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2019, 03:22 PM »
I have seen such marks when being too greedy regarding feed rate.

Also once when not making sure that the saw sits slop free on the rail...  :-X