Author Topic: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?  (Read 4553 times)

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Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1916
Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« on: December 20, 2018, 07:39 PM »
I'll admit it, I ordered this from Amazon and not a FOG dealer. Late night one-click got the best of me, I promise I won't do it again.

I grabbed the pump on an impulse last summer on the recon site (just before the price was dropped) but have never used it. Finally decided Santa could bring me the SE-1 clamping unit 201065 to play with over the holidays. What arrived was an old style systainer with a tool dated 2015.

When I went to see if I somehow goofed I noticed that (1) nowhere does a systainer show on any site advertising the 201065 nor is there any mention of t-loc and (2) all the stock photos of the 495294 vac-sys accessory set show a non t-loc.

My question is whether this is just really old stock or if these items are still being shipped by everyone sans t-loc? Normally I wouldn't care too much since most tools in my shop don't reside in their systainer but in this case I planned to store the clamp in one.

Thanks, now I'm going to go write on the chalkboard "I won't ever buy Festool from a non-FOG dealer again" 100 times.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

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Offline ddjeske

  • Posts: 12
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2018, 07:43 PM »
I’m pretty sure they are all in classic Systainers.  I got mine earlier this year and they were both in classics.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2018, 07:47 PM »
They come in the classic ssytainers.  Not the dealers fault or old stock.  Search here and you can confirm.

peter

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 824
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2018, 08:23 PM »
Yep, come in a classic as stated.  The SE1 ports over nicely to a T-loc IV...don’t think I even had to modify the insert.
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1916
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #4 on: December 20, 2018, 09:02 PM »
Makes me feel better, thanks all.

Out of curiosity... WHY???

Just ask'n.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline travisj

  • Posts: 363
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2018, 09:37 PM »
The explanation I was given was that the vac pump for the rest of the world is built into a classic Systainer

 

They put the clamps in the classic Systainers as well for compatibility.  For whatever reason the pump for the US is different.


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Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2746
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #6 on: December 20, 2018, 09:44 PM »
I just retrofitted my Vac Sys set to a T-loc.  Easy to do and I sold the old one on FOG as I recall.

For the heads, I did not want the large Systainer due to storage consideration.  So here's a thread on how I store the heads in a Sys1 t-loc.  Since you have a CNC, it would be easy to make the wooden pieces like I did to hold the heads.

Neil

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6468
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #7 on: December 20, 2018, 09:50 PM »
Out of curiosity... WHY???

Because they can...why has Festool failed to fix the Kapex ills 8 years hence... because they can...why has Festool failed to correct the imperial demarcations on their tools while those tools only adjust in metric increments...because they can.

Personally I think they need to get their little German butts spanked...

Offline xedos

  • Posts: 71
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2018, 12:06 AM »
Seems like somewhere along the line I heard that it was safety rating issue (read UL).

It's quite possible I misunderstood or that the info was bogus. So don't go quoting me.

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1916
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2018, 07:24 AM »
@travis thanks, that actually makes total sense to me. For anyone outside the US with a set of components it would work better if all were non t-loc. Probably not enough volume of sales to have 2 different skus.

Although @Cheese has a valid point...

Anyway thanks for the clarification, I can rest easy that its the only option. @neilc I'll track down that thread, the accessories are probably next and I won't be keeping them in the systainer. In all honesty if I use this as much as I hope it may earn a permanent place on the bench in which case the systainer will end up on the heap with all the others.

Thanks again all.

RMW




The explanation I was given was that the vac pump for the rest of the world is built into a classic Systainer

 

They put the clamps in the classic Systainers as well for compatibility.  For whatever reason the pump for the US is different.


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« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 07:27 AM by Richard/RMW »
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 490
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2018, 10:14 AM »
I think you'll find with this tool it doesn't really matter as you'll end up finding a permanent home for it.

On my to-do list is a Vac-Sys mobile cart with preferably the ability to raise/lower the top platform and possibly mount the clamping module to a t track with the option for two clamping modules having the ability to slide along the t-track as needed. The adjustable height bit is the part I haven't worked out yet. I looked at metal scissor lift tables briefly. I like the idea of  having something I can wheel around and lower to hold a tall cabinet carcass and rotate the part(s) as needed using the vac-sys but raise up when I'm doing something that would be better suited higher up.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 10:20 AM by DynaGlide »
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Online Cheese

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Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2018, 10:34 AM »
The explanation I was given was that the vac pump for the rest of the world is built into a classic Systainer

Ya, that's the same thing I've heard before.  [smile]   And that makes a lot of sense to keep the old style vacuum chuck systainers for those parts of the world where the "systainer vacuum pump" is sold.

However, as the vacuum pump for the US was never going to be marketed inside a systainer anyways, I think a switch to T-Loc systainers for the US market would have been a better path to follow.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 10:05 AM by Cheese »

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1916
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2018, 10:57 AM »
Found @neilc thread on storing the accessory heads and Seth also weighs in on the classic sys question.

Thanks everyone, Merry Christmas and may Santa bring you lots of t-loc goodies.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline ScotF

  • Posts: 2677
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2018, 08:23 PM »
I agree it is silly, but not a deal breaker. The new old style seem to unlatch easier than some of my other old style. I have a mix of everything so not a big deal. I do really like the Vac Sys, though...a great tool purchase!!

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1916
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2018, 08:32 PM »
Gave it a test drive earlier today and WOW! Used vacuum to hold to the ply benchtop and a test piece and I couldn't move it.

This looks like a game changer. Should get time to experiment over the weekend. It's s got me thinking about how to keep it handy but not permanently on the work surface.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Gregor

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Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2018, 03:09 AM »
It's s got me thinking about how to keep it handy but not permanently on the work surface.
https://www.festool.de/zubehoer/494977---vac-sys-ad-mft-3

Online Cheese

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Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #16 on: December 22, 2018, 10:47 AM »
It's s got me thinking about how to keep it handy but not permanently on the work surface.

Here are a couple of previous threads that may be of interest.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-jigs-tool-enhancements/vac-sys-on-mft-3/msg504481/#msg504481

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/sys-vac-question/60/

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1916
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #17 on: December 22, 2018, 11:48 AM »
Thanks @Cheese & @Gregor lots of good info on those threads.

My current thought is I want to avoid screwing the clamp base to anything to make it easier to grab and position it anywhere then use vacuum to hold the base while in use. I was poised to drill out the worktop with a 20mm/96mm hole pattern (new Parf MkII arrived last week) until I saw how well this thing holds on plywood, now I'm questioning whether I want all those holes in the entire top.   

I am thinking of a bracket hanging from the side of the cart to store the clamp in vertically, but instead of screwing the clamp to the bracket just trapping it against plywood it can suck onto in use. The clamp can sit in the bracket loosely until I need it, then I either move it to the top or just turn on the pump and either way vacuum would hold it while in use.

One thing I plan to do immediately is add a QD into each hose, 10 minutes of playing with it convinced me that the hoses will drive me nuts otherwise. Probably make up some extra hoses while I'm at it, QD @ each end like air hose.

I'll report back once I start making progress, but this really looks like a game-changer in my little shop.

RMW

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6468
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #18 on: December 22, 2018, 12:18 PM »
Hey Richard, this was my solution, it allows me to have holes in the work bench surface for clamping while still allowing me to place the VAC-SYS wherever I please.

An 18 ga stainless plate with 2 each 20mm aluminum dogs attached with stainless BHCS (button head cap screws). The stainless plate is flexible enough that when the vacuum is applied, it bends slightly which then wedges the aluminum dogs securely in the dog holes without damaging them.







This allows me to place the VAC-SYS parallel to the front of the bench or perpendicular to the front of the bench and anywhere within the field.

I made 2 plates so I can use both the SE 1 & SE 2.




Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1916
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #19 on: December 23, 2018, 12:31 AM »
@Cheese Nice! I haven't looked at the clamp bottom, appears that there is clearance for the BHSCS underneath. I like this approach.

I'm probably destined to add the SE-2 to the fleet, doesn't seem to be a choice now.

Spent tonight finishing up install of French cleat cubbies for some cheap HF parts bins to empty out several cabinets worth of small hardware fasteners etc. and clear out some floor space. Part of the unending dance of cramming more stuff into the small space. I'm tettering on buying a HF tool cart to replace the last 2 cabinets now. Their metal rolling tool boxes are surprising high quality. Everything on wheels is the battle cry.

Next up is finishing the main workspace including this.  I'll post some progress photos next week. Adding the mig and welding table created some challenges.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Online Cheese

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Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #20 on: December 23, 2018, 01:09 AM »
Well Richard, that space thing affects us all. It’s a constant struggle. The older I become, the less room I have...and the less room I have, the older and crankier I become.  [big grin]

I’ve followed your French cleat program, I embrace it, applaud it and am going to implement it for some of my storage solutions...as soon as I can finish installing this blasted Honeywell dehumidifier into the HVAC system.

Online tallgrass

  • Posts: 870
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #21 on: December 23, 2018, 02:42 AM »
I would have that using the classic systainer would be a matter of robustness. I find the classics stronger. I put mine in a classic and I have the choice of both. the classics are more rigid, which could be a benefit in an application such as this, vibration, heavy load, no need for frequent and convenient access.

Offline Gregor

  • Posts: 1357
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2018, 04:38 AM »
@Cheese I like your creative use of pressure differentials to bend matter to your will [smile]

Regarding your space problem I can comfort you with the knowledge of you not being alone:


I would have that using the classic systainer would be a matter of robustness. I find the classics stronger. I put mine in a classic and I have the choice of both. the classics are more rigid, which could be a benefit in an application such as this, vibration, heavy load, no need for frequent and convenient access.
While the classic systainers might be stronger, my fingernails hate the connector latches with a passion that would be filtered by the forum should I try to express it.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 04:50 AM by Gregor »

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6468
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #23 on: December 23, 2018, 10:00 AM »
@Cheese I like your creative use of pressure differentials to bend matter to your will [smile]

Regarding your space problem I can comfort you with the knowledge of you not being alone:

Hey @Gregor  that's hilarious...it really hits home because I also have rental space to store more of my STUFF.  [eek]

Originally I was going to use some 1/4" thick aluminum plate for the base until I accidentally placed the SE 1 on some thin sheet metal...that's when I had the A HA moment. [big grin]
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 10:17 AM by Cheese »

Online Cheese

  • Posts: 6468
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #24 on: December 23, 2018, 11:32 AM »
@Cheese Nice! I haven't looked at the clamp bottom, appears that there is clearance for the BHSCS underneath. I like this approach.

Hey Richard  @RMW , here's a shot of the underside of the SE 1 unit. Lots of room there.  That prompted me to investigate & start this thread.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/vac-sys-vacuum-decay-times/msg458918/#msg458918


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4222
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2018, 12:25 PM »
@Cheese Nice! I haven't looked at the clamp bottom, appears that there is clearance for the BHSCS underneath. I like this approach.

I'm probably destined to add the SE-2 to the fleet, doesn't seem to be a choice now.

Spent tonight finishing up install of French cleat cubbies for some cheap HF parts bins to empty out several cabinets worth of small hardware fasteners etc. and clear out some floor space. Part of the unending dance of cramming more stuff into the small space. I'm tettering on buying a HF tool cart to replace the last 2 cabinets now. Their metal rolling tool boxes are surprising high quality. Everything on wheels is the battle cry.

Next up is finishing the main workspace including this.  I'll post some progress photos next week. Adding the mig and welding table created some challenges.

RMW

I bought one. It is a pretty good value but I actually wish it was not 22” deep. To fully open a drawer you have to back pretty far away from the wall. I’m used to the very cheap light weight tool chests bought from K-Mart 30+ years ago that only pull out half as far (and are half as deep to start with). With just a wrist swing the cheap drawer opens enough to see tools at the back. To see the back of the drawer on the  new cabinet takes a full arm swing. Or grab the pull and walk backwards.

First world problems.

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1916
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2018, 04:57 PM »
@Cheese Nice! I haven't looked at the clamp bottom, appears that there is clearance for the BHSCS underneath. I like this approach.

Hey Richard  @RMW , here's a shot of the underside of the SE 1 unit. Lots of room there.  That prompted me to investigate & start this thread.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tool-reviews/vac-sys-vacuum-decay-times/msg458918/#msg458918

(Attachment Link)

Wow. Never occurred to me that using the vacuum to hold the clamp down has side benefits. My unreasoned assumption was the opposite, that it would somehow "use up" vacuum and negatively impact the actual clamping pressure. Darned physics stuff tripped me up again.

Thanks @Cheese

RMW

As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1916
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2018, 05:01 PM »
PS regarding adding quick disconnects to the clamping units, I assume that the internal threads are going to be metric? Anyone have any actual knowledge on this?

I'd like to add male nipples to the clamp and the female QD to the hoses. I think...

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2241
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #28 on: December 23, 2018, 05:21 PM »
I added disconnects to both my vac units it make storing them more manageable.  I bought 8mm push/pull fittings and tube from automationdirect.com.  I originally started buying from them for the use with the two Virutex clamping heads that I bought a year before Festool decided to make theirs AINA...I hate "murphy" with an endless passion.
I used 3/8" polycarbonate for my vac bases.  289367-0
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 05:24 PM by rst »

Offline Richard/RMW

  • Posts: 1916
Re: Vac-Sys non t-loc Systainer?
« Reply #29 on: December 23, 2018, 06:00 PM »
I added disconnects to both my vac units it make storing them more manageable.  I bought 8mm push/pull fittings and tube from automationdirect.com.  I originally started buying from them for the use with the two Virutex clamping heads that I bought a year before Festool decided to make theirs AINA...I hate "murphy" with an endless passion.
I used 3/8" polycarbonate for my vac bases.  (Attachment Link)

@rst did you replace the barb that's threaded into the clamping unit of just lop off the hose and connect to it? All the PTC fittings I've seen have imperial pipe threads.

RMW
As of 10/17 I am out of the Dog business and pursuing other distractions. Thanks for a fun ride!