Author Topic: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X  (Read 3389 times)

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Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 895
Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« on: February 04, 2019, 10:20 AM »
As many of you know I am always searching and testing out new paint. This time I thought I would try BM Scuff-X as I have heard a lot of good things about it.
BM was kind enough to give me a gallon to play with.
This paint is really thick and has more VOC's then usual. As per the TDS, I thinned the gallon by 5% with BM extender and it still was very tick. I was skeptical on how well this was going to spray and lay down. I used my Graco Ultra handhell with a FFLP310 tip, pressure was at 6.5 on the dial which is around 1400-1500 psi.
Set my fan and sprayed some test panels.
Typically when you spray waterborne paint you try for that wet lake look and you will have a little orange peel look but as it dries the orange peel goes away. With this paint, it sprayed absolutely flat. I was quite surprised.

The image shows one coat sprayed over a medium grey test panel and dried for 24 hours ( approx).
I'm quite happy so far. You can see the reflection of the dental scraper.

Cheers,
JC

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Offline blaszcsj

  • Posts: 457
  • I like building stuff with my hands.
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #1 on: February 04, 2019, 12:33 PM »
Do you think this can be sprayed with HVLP?
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Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 895
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #2 on: February 04, 2019, 01:59 PM »
Do you think this can be sprayed with HVLP?
I'm assuming you're talking about turbine based HVLP. I haven't tried it yet. I have a Q5 and I think you would have to thin somewhere between 30-40% which would reduce the anti scuff properties.
With compressor based HVLP, it should work.

When I try it I will post my findings.
Cheers,
JC

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 895
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #3 on: February 04, 2019, 02:01 PM »
Just sanded the first coat very lightly with 220. Sanded to a powder and did not clog the sandpaper. A huge bonus. Less paper, less waste, more profit. Layed down perfectly. Can't wait to see it after 3 hours of drying.

Cheers,
JC

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 823
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2019, 02:34 PM »
Thanks for sharing!  How do you think this will compare to Advance for interior trim work? 
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 895
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #5 on: February 04, 2019, 03:01 PM »
Thanks for sharing!  How do you think this will compare to Advance for interior trim work?
A lot of painters in my area have ditched Advance and are now using Scuff-X. Much quicker dry time, scuff resistant and fully cured in 14 days, unlike Advance which takes more then 30 days.
Cheers,
JC

Offline Lettusbee

  • Posts: 67
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #6 on: February 04, 2019, 08:19 PM »
Curious if it will respond well to touch ups with a brush?

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Offline Rhino1789

  • Posts: 34
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #7 on: February 04, 2019, 08:48 PM »
Would you declare this the best finish for interior built-ins and other finished carpentry? I was looking for something to finish off some built-in bookshelves.

Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 211
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2019, 12:59 AM »
In my experience Scuff-X is one of the best single component waterborne trim/millwork products on the market. At least for spray applications.

Scuff-X does so many things well. Incredible hardness when cured and even shortly after it’s been applied. Excellent adhesion. Levels well when sprayed and exhibits almost no orange peel. It also doesn’t want to sag or run. It’s brushable, but it sets up quickly so you have to work fast. Adding extender also helps it’s brush ability.

I’d be really curious how Scuff-X compares to other waterborne products such as SW HydroPlus or Milesi 2k. I’ve never tested this, but I’d guess it would fair well in the pencil hardness test, but probably wouldn’t hold up as well to chems or foods like mustard or wine that stain.





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Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 211
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #9 on: February 05, 2019, 03:11 AM »
How does Scuff-X compare to Advance? First off they are very different products in terms of their chemical make up. Scuff-X is an Acrylic and Advance is a Waterborne Alkyd.

They also look very different. Some clients really want the look of Satin Impervo and for this group Advance is the clear winner. The surface of Scuff-X doesn’t appear as slick as Advance.

For me, one of the biggest difference between Advance and Scuff-X is how quickly they harden and fully cure. Scuff-X hardens and cures much faster. After drying overnight I can’t scratch or dent Scuff-X with my fingernail. In contrast Advance will scratch and dent fairly easily. If you’re spraying cabinet doors flat you may have to wait several days before you can flip them with Advance and not risk denting the finish.

Scuff-X is much thicker than Advance. Because is this it’s less likely to run run or sag. It also doesn’t show minor surface imperfections. Even 220 grit scratches can telegraph through a coat of Advance.

Even with a little extender added to Scuff-X, Advance brushes a little better.

Hope that helps.






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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6367
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #10 on: February 05, 2019, 09:40 AM »

Scuff-X is much thicker than Advance. Because of this it’s less likely to run run or sag.


Does the extra thickness of 2 coats of Scuff-X cause any issue with hinge mortises?

Do you even need to apply 2 coats of Scuff-X?

Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4162
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2019, 10:10 AM »
As many of you know I am always searching and testing out new paint. This time I thought I would try BM Scuff-X as I have heard a lot of good things about it.
BM was kind enough to give me a gallon to play with.
This paint is really thick and has more VOC's then usual. As per the TDS, I thinned the gallon by 5% with BM extender and it still was very tick. I was skeptical on how well this was going to spray and lay down. I used my Graco Ultra handhell with a FFLP310 tip, pressure was at 6.5 on the dial which is around 1400-1500 psi.
Set my fan and sprayed some test panels.
Typically when you spray waterborne paint you try for that wet lake look and you will have a little orange peel look but as it dries the orange peel goes away. With this paint, it sprayed absolutely flat. I was quite surprised.

The image shows one coat sprayed over a medium grey test panel and dried for 24 hours ( approx).
I'm quite happy so far. You can see the reflection of the dental scraper.

Cheers,
JC

An .010 tip @1500 psi doesn’t seem very thick. Does the narrow fan of that 310 tip allow a smaller orifice? How does Scuff-X compare to other paint thickness? For example, just checked paints on my shelf and they call for .015 or larger @2000psi or more. Primers recommend .017 or larger @2200 or more.

Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 211
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2019, 10:15 AM »

Scuff-X is much thicker than Advance. Because of this it’s less likely to run run or sag.


Does the extra thickness of 2 coats of Scuff-X cause any issue with hinge mortises?

Do you even need to apply 2 coats of Scuff-X?

I always mask the hinge mortises on the door and the jamb to avoid that issues. But if you didn’t it might be an issue, but it might be with just about any product.

You could probably get away with one coat with Scuff-X. I always do two to ensure proper cover in case there are light spots from the first coat.


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Offline Pnw painter

  • Posts: 211
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2019, 12:02 PM »

[/quote]

An .010 tip @1500 psi doesn’t seem very thick. Does the narrow fan of that 310 tip allow a smaller orifice? How does Scuff-X compare to other paint thickness? For example, just checked paints on my shelf and they call for .015 or larger @2000psi or more. Primers recommend .017 or larger @2200 or more.
[/quote]
The TDS for Scuff-X calls for a .X15 - .X17 orifice. For spraying trim it would be almost impossible using this big of an orifice and not get runs or sags. I’m using a .311 or a .513 tip on my AAA rig.

Many products are applied at 3-4 mils wet. The Scuff-X TDS says 4.3 mil wet. I’m always curious how far they can go beyond that in real world applications before they start to sag or run.

When I’m talking about thickness, I’m referencing what it’s like when you’re stirring it in the can. Scuff-X is much thicker compared to something such as Kem Aqua Plus. Depending on your application method this can also present some issues.




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Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 895
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2019, 06:20 PM »
In my experience Scuff-X is one of the best single component waterborne trim/millwork products on the market. At least for spray applications.

Scuff-X does so many things well. Incredible hardness when cured and even shortly after it’s been applied. Excellent adhesion. Levels well when sprayed and exhibits almost no orange peel. It also doesn’t want to sag or run. It’s brushable, but it sets up quickly so you have to work fast. Adding extender also helps it’s brush ability.

I’d be really curious how Scuff-X compares to other waterborne products such as SW HydroPlus or Milesi 2k. I’ve never tested this, but I’d guess it would fair well in the pencil hardness test, but probably wouldn’t hold up as well to chems or foods like mustard or wine that stain.





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Thought I would do a wine test. This panel has 2 coats of Scuff-X, sprayed with FFLP310 tip with the Graco Ultra Handheld, pressure dial at 6.5.
Has been drying for 48 hours.
I let the wine, a nice cab, sit for 30 seconds and wipe it up with a damp paper towel. There was no visible residue at all on the surface.
This paint is turning out to be something special.
Thought I would share.
Cheers,
JC

Offline live4ever

  • Posts: 823
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2019, 08:06 PM »
Thanks @JCLP and @Pnw painter for all of the info.  Will definitely pick some up to try out soon.  I do like the look of Advance but sometimes it's just not practical to use. 
Current systainer to productivity ratio:  very high

Offline Tim Raleigh

  • Posts: 3559
    • Oakville Cabinetry
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2019, 09:02 PM »
I let the wine, a nice cab, sit for 30 seconds and wipe it up with a damp paper towel.
Seems like a waste of a nice cab...
Tim

Offline Curt Boyer

  • Posts: 203
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2019, 09:48 PM »
JC, have you tried spraying with your Q5 yet? I have the same sprayer and have some cabinet doors to build and paint in a couple of weeks and wanted to try Scuff-X.
Cheers
Curt

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6367
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2019, 11:51 PM »
Seems like a waste of a nice cab...

My thoughts exactly... [big grin]

I’d have sacrificed a cheap Chianti and been done with it.

I am curious though as to how long red wine can set on a white surface before it stains that surface permanently.
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 12:01 AM by Cheese »

Offline alice

  • Posts: 109
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2019, 08:23 AM »
Hey JC what did you use for primer?

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 895
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2019, 09:19 AM »
Hey JC what did you use for primer?

I use Sherwin Williams Wall and Wood. Two coats for MDF and sometimes 1 coat for raw wood.
I am going to try Ultra Spec® 500 Interior Latex Primer (K534) to see if this works. It should as it is recommended on the TDS.

cheers,
JC

Offline alice

  • Posts: 109
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2019, 09:24 AM »
Thanks JC.

Offline JCLP

  • Posts: 895
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2019, 04:26 PM »
JC, have you tried spraying with your Q5 yet? I have the same sprayer and have some cabinet doors to build and paint in a couple of weeks and wanted to try Scuff-X.
Cheers
Curt
Hi Curt,
Just tried Scuff-X with the Q5, T75 with the 3M PPS system. Thinned it 6% with BM extender and 6" water and it was way to thick still. Tried 1.8 and 2.0 needle and was not able to get the paint to atomize properly. I don't want to thin it too much as it will reduce the anti-scuff properties of the film.
Just sprayed some Kem Aqua Plus with the T70 gun, also with the 3M PPS system, used a 1.0 needle, full power and the fluid knob turned about 1 1/4 turn. Turned out real nice.

I was hesitant to use Sherwin Williams products as our local store had very unfriendly staff. They just got a new manager and some new staff and now they are friendly. So I decided, after 2 years, to try Kem Aqua Plus again.

As for Scuff-X, I will try the 2.5 needle sometime this week and report back.

Cheers,
JC

Offline Curt Boyer

  • Posts: 203
Re: Benjamin Moore Scuff-X
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2019, 10:17 PM »
HI JC
Thanks for the info. Let me know if the 2.5 works, I have the 70with all of the needles sizes. I have a SW store at the end of my street with a very friendly staff that aren't particularly versed in spraying and Kem Aqua. I've had pretty good luck with Wall and Wood primer and Emerald Urethane finish coats. I wanted to try Breakthrough, what are your thoughts? I have to paint a lot of cabinets white and they will be in an office and laundry rm so they need to hold up to abuse.
Cheers
Curt