Author Topic: Cabinet Interior Finishing  (Read 4388 times)

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Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Cabinet Interior Finishing
« on: July 20, 2019, 02:13 PM »
I’m building my first cabinets and have prefinished plywood one side which leaves a partition and drawer dividers needing to be finished. What’s the best way to finish the non finished sides for interior?  I’ve a Devilbliss spray gun I’ve never used yet, which seems like a lot of work for one panel and a few dividers, and am wondering if I should spray it with spray can of polyurethane or something else? Existing prefinished has a dull gloss.




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Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6018
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2019, 02:35 PM »
If it is just those few pieces, brush on some waterborne poly. Minwax Polycrylic will do.

Tom

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2019, 03:13 PM »
I’ve the stuff below which has been in the basement but for some time now ... should I throw it out?  Is the poly you mention this same type of poly or something else?

2010
301470-0

2014
301472-1

2009
301474-2

Conditioner 2010 ... wood stain 2014
301476-3

301478-4

Offline SRSemenza

  • Global Moderator
  • *
  • Posts: 8886
  • Finger Lakes Region, NY State , USA
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2019, 03:19 PM »
Spray can of semi gloss lacquer will do this quick and easy. Use this spray can gun.

   https://www.homedepot.com/p/Rust-Oleum-Stops-Rust-High-Performance-Comfort-Spray-Grip-Accessory-241526/100670383

Seth

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6018
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2019, 07:57 PM »
I’ve the stuff below which has been in the basement but for some time now ... should I throw it out?  Is the poly you mention this same type of poly or something else?

2010
(Attachment Link)

2014
(Attachment Link)

2009
(Attachment Link)

Conditioner 2010 ... wood stain 2014
(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)


I'd dump those. You'll need to take them to a recycling center. They're solvent bourne.

Polycrylic is waterborne. Very easy to use.

Tom

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2019, 09:44 PM »
I’ve the stuff below which has been in the basement but for some time now ... should I throw it out?  Is the poly you mention this same type of poly or something else?

2010
(Attachment Link)

2014
(Attachment Link)

2009
(Attachment Link)

Conditioner 2010 ... wood stain 2014
(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)


I'd dump those. You'll need to take them to a recycling center. They're solvent bourne.

Polycrylic is waterborne. Very easy to use.

Tom

It seems I could use this on the cabinet while it’s  in my basement wood shop without hauling it upstairs and out to the garage?  This particular cabinet is Maple plywood with 3/4” Walnut edge banding ... would this cause milky color on it?  I read because of its thinness it may not be good to apply vertically, since the cabinet is already assembled, would it be difficult to wipe on with foam brush, etc. Without issue?

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6018
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2019, 10:12 PM »
You can use the waterborne inside with no issues. It holds well on vertical surfaces. It dries crystal clear and will not yellow over maple.

Tom

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6252
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2019, 11:10 PM »
I've pretty much given up on using solvent based clear coats. Aqueous based clear coats are my go-to solution.

However there are 3 exceptions:
1. When trying to match previousy coated 3/4" thick strip floors, 95% of the time they've been coated with solvent based products. If you need to match the color, you need to use the clear coat formulation that they used at the time, which is usually a solvent based coating.  The alternative is to sand down to bare wood and then overcoat with a water based product.

2. Working with walnut or other dark hardwoods, the solvent based finishes tend to bring out more depth and render a richer finish to the wood.

3. Working with Brazilian cherry, I'll always coat it with a solvent based product and then expose it to sunlight. The sunlight darkens the hue and turns it more red while the solvent coating just adds more depth.

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2019, 04:17 PM »
Thanks for all the info.

I bought a Devilbliss spray gun from a friend who used to own a cabinet shop and a large spray tent from Rockler but haven’t used either yet. I’ve a 60 gallon air compressor in the garage but need a water separator and perhaps some other items ... can you recommend one and anything else I might be missing?

With the spray gun, can I spray water based finish in the basement without issue?  Will it make a mess if I spray in the open without the tent?  If I use an oil based finish, should I spray in the garage in the tent or outdoors in the open?  I have a respirator I bought from HD when I was airbrushing RC shells years back which I assume is fine for this type of work too?

301629-0

301631-1

301633-2

301635-3

301637-4

301639-5

301641-6

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2019, 07:59 PM »
Assuming my air compressor has enough CFM and I don’t need a pressure pot or something else that I’ll need a “dryer” to separate oil, water, etc. Any recommendations or is this a good one?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B002PR8ZXK/ref=cm_cr_othr_mb_bdcrb_top?ie=UTF8#cm_cr_carousel_images_section


Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6018
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2019, 08:21 PM »
The compressor should handle the gun for the limited amount you have to spray.

I use these types of separators, I have a large one at the compressor, a smaller one at each piece of spray equipment. Someday I'll get a refrigerant dryer. A little moisture does not affect a waterborne as much as it does solvents.

If you have ever run oil through any of your hoses, get a new hose just for spraying.

https://www.amazon.com/PneumaticPlus-PPC3C-N02G-Particulate-Coalescing-Regulator/dp/B016XIWHGM/ref=pd_cp_263_4?pd_rd_w=88dFJ&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=2PA6N6MFAYMH63SFDQ1Y&pd_rd_r=94407ef5-1a4a-4b55-b18d-9957090b5444&pd_rd_wg=AmwDY&pd_rd_i=B016XIWHGM&psc=1&refRID=2PA6N6MFAYMH63SFDQ1Y

Once you get the gun set properly, the mess will be limited. NEVER spray solvents in your basement.

With a few minutes of looking around you can probably come up with an easy way to enclose a spray area.

Tom

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2019, 01:26 PM »
Thanks Tom.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 12:16 PM by Bugsysiegals »

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #12 on: July 24, 2019, 12:46 PM »
I never thought this would be so difficult ... the friend I bought the gun from uses Minwax stains and SW Medium Rubbed Laquer whereas another friend uses SW BAC wiping stains, Axalta conversion varnish, or SW Hi-Bild Laquer for spraying cabinets.  Meanwhle some of you are saying to use Waterborne product like SW Kem Aqua Plus.

Would you still use Waterborne on these cabinets with the Walnut?  The more I read the more confused and uncertain I am about whether to go with conversion varnish, 2k Poly, catalyzed lacquer (Hi-Bild or Medium Rubbed Lacquer), or a waterborne solution. 

I’m not sure how you guys ever came to settle on a choice, this is information overload, and way to many choices!!!
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 10:09 PM by Bugsysiegals »

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #13 on: July 24, 2019, 10:02 PM »
I've pretty much given up on using solvent based clear coats. Aqueous based clear coats are my go-to solution.

However there are 3 exceptions:
1. When trying to match previousy coated 3/4" thick strip floors, 95% of the time they've been coated with solvent based products. If you need to match the color, you need to use the clear coat formulation that they used at the time, which is usually a solvent based coating.  The alternative is to sand down to bare wood and then overcoat with a water based product.

2. Working with walnut or other dark hardwoods, the solvent based finishes tend to bring out more depth and render a richer finish to the wood.

3. Working with Brazilian cherry, I'll always coat it with a solvent based product and then expose it to sunlight. The sunlight darkens the hue and turns it more red while the solvent coating just adds more depth.

Since I’ve Walnut on this cabinet, could I wipe it with something like Danish Oil or Shellac to give it some richness/luster and then spray a WB solution over the existing Maple as well as Walnut, perhaps I’d need to seal something first, or would WB not be a good choice over the top of Walnut if I want the “best” finished appearance?

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6018
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #14 on: July 24, 2019, 10:36 PM »
I spray only waterborne, both clears and pigmented, about 60 gallons of KA+ a month. they're the safer choice.

Waters do not give life to walnut without a little coaxing. Use Zinsser Seal Coat to give the walnut life. Gently sand, top coat with a waterborne.

In this picture you can see the difference between a straight water and a surface that has been prepared to bring out the life of the walnut.

Tom

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2019, 11:00 PM »
I actually found that picture earlier and liked the underlighting on the island. So the top had Zinsser SealCoat applied (any tinting, etc. or standard can no tint/cutting), light sand, then KA+ versus the bottom which was just KA+?

Is KA+ the waterborne version of Hi-Build Lacquer and something like GF Enduro Conversion Varnish the waterborne version of solvent based conversion varnish?  I assume you primarily use KA+ on cabinets and perhaps a WB CV on items which have higher traffic such as vanities, tables, etc.?

Do I need a business account, I can use my friends, for KA+?  SW has 40% off through tomorrow and wondering if it applies to this or not...
« Last Edit: July 24, 2019, 11:33 PM by Bugsysiegals »

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6018
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #16 on: July 25, 2019, 12:37 AM »
Any tinting was done to blend the heartwood on any of the areas.

I use KA+ everywhere. I do not change products for various areas. I did have one issue with the finish failing----after 2 years of a soap dispenser dripping on the top rail of a door.

Yes, KA+ is a waterborne lacquer.

An account helps, sales do not apply to KA+. Your local store probably not have it or know what it is.

Get a quart of Enduro, try it on a piece of walnut, I believe you'll be happy with the results.

Tom

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #17 on: July 25, 2019, 10:18 AM »
Thanks Tom!

My local SW has Hi-Bild Lacquer for $30/g and KA+ for $60/g. Twice the price sucks but if I can spray year round in my basement and get used to a single product it's a decent trade off considering I'm not going to spray that much per year. 

Is it safe to spray WB in the basement with bedroom and furnace/water heater down there?  FWIW - I have 3 cinderblock safety glass windows with vents on top and can connect some fans to exhaust fumes.

Do you recommend sanding sealer underneath KA+ for non-painted cabinets? If so, would you use SW product or Zinsser SealCoat and will these darken the wood or would I need some other product like Danish Oil, etc.? 


« Last Edit: July 26, 2019, 10:32 AM by Bugsysiegals »

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6018
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #18 on: July 26, 2019, 08:14 PM »
@Bugsysiegals,

Sorry for the delay. The only pictures I had with the maple darkened was Surfix finished.

Today we had to do a cabinet back, normally we would use pre-finshed maple. I chose to use unfinished and shoot it.

The pictures shows the cabinet back finished with Sayerlak Hydro Plus. Sayerlak is also a SW company.

After reading the look you were after, I felt Hydro Plus would work to get you where you want to be. KA+ is a clearer finish.

I should have shot a piece of walnut for you to see, hopefully I'll remember tomorrow.

The finished piece is next to the balance of the sheet.

As I previously stated GF Enduro would work. If one piece was sprayed with Enduro and another shot with Hydro Plus, my guess is you could not tell which piece was which, once dry.

First pic is one coat, drying, second is final coated (3) and dry. The reason for 3 is I did not want to dirty a gun with sanding sealer. HP is self sealing, after sanding the first coat 2 coats should be applied.

Tom


Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 825
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #19 on: July 26, 2019, 09:26 PM »
Tom, Sayerlack has been my go to clear finish for the past 3 years, on this side of the border its only available in 5 gallon pails from the industrial divison. KA plus clear is also only sold in 5 gallon pails for about have the price of Sayerlack. Just curious if they are selling it in gallons in the US.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6018
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #20 on: July 26, 2019, 09:36 PM »
@kcufstoidi,

I purchase all my finishes in 5's. They will do a pour off, but it's rare I need just a gallon.

You think the the product is expensive, get the cost of the aziridine (cross linker) for it. The aziridine cost me 187 dollars a quart.

The 5's represent 4-6 weeks of spraying, depends on how the builds are going. Most I've sprayed in a month was 125 gallons of KA+.

Tom

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #21 on: July 26, 2019, 10:05 PM »
Thanks for sharing Tom ... I think that color would look great!!  I’ll check on the price of Hyrdo versus Enduro .. does Enduro self seal also or would I need the Zinsser underneath which may darken it more?

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6018
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #22 on: July 26, 2019, 10:38 PM »
Thanks for sharing Tom ... I think that color would look great!!  I’ll check on the price of Hyrdo versus Enduro .. does Enduro self seal also or would I need the Zinsser underneath which may darken it more?

Self sealing.

Tom

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #23 on: July 26, 2019, 10:40 PM »
Great, do I need anything to thin it or can I spray it and KA+ right out of the can?

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6018
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2019, 10:43 PM »
Great, do I need anything to thin it or can I spray it and KA+ right out of the can?

Not certain, I'm not familiar with your spray gun.

Try warming the product before you thin it (no more than 100º).

Distilled water for thinning if necessary.

Tom

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2019, 10:48 PM »
Very good, thanks for all the details Tom.

One last thing, overspray, considering whether to spray in the 6x9 tent in the basement or build an enclosed room with PVC and plastic and perhaps vent to the basement window. Do you think I could spray in the tent without having particulates leaving the tent and covering everything in my shop?  Would it be wiser to build an isolated PVC spray room instead?

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6018
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #26 on: July 26, 2019, 10:53 PM »
Very good, thanks for all the details Tom.

One last thing, overspray, considering whether to spray in the 6x9 tent in the basement or build an enclosed room with PVC and plastic and perhaps vent to the basement window. Do you think I could spray in the tent without having particulates leaving the tent and covering everything in my shop?  Would it be wiser to build an isolated PVC spray room instead?

If the gun is adjusted properly there should be minimal overspray.

I used to spray in my basement with KA+ all the time. I did section it off with plastic.

Tom

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #27 on: July 26, 2019, 10:59 PM »
Great to know, I’ll make a booth then and exhaust it. Just out of curiosity, if any particles did leak out or were exhausted outside and landed on the side of the house, would it stick on and not be able to easily washed off or blown off with a compressor?  I’d imagine if the solution evaporated in seconds that it would be like a dust but thought I read even if dry it will stick and not wipe off easily ... would be great to know so I’m not coating my siding.

Offline tjbnwi

  • Posts: 6018
  • Cedar Tucky Indiana
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #28 on: July 26, 2019, 11:02 PM »
Great to know, I’ll make a booth then and exhaust it. Just out of curiosity, if any particles did leak out or were exhausted outside and landed on the side of the house, would it stick on and not be able to easily washed off or blown off with a compressor?  I’d imagine if the solution evaporated in seconds that it would be like a dust but thought I read even if dry it will stick and not wipe off easily ... would be great to know so I’m not coating my siding.

It dry falls pretty quick.

If you're concerned, wet the side of the house.

Tom

Offline Bugsysiegals

  • Posts: 263
Re: Cabinet Interior Finishing
« Reply #29 on: July 26, 2019, 11:10 PM »
It sounds like it’s not going to be an issue, thanks for all the feedback!!

Just curious, what do you use to clean your gun after spraying Enduro or KA+?