Festool Owners Group

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS => Finishing and Painting => Topic started by: tjbnwi on January 17, 2017, 07:14 PM

Title: No one is immune....
Post by: tjbnwi on January 17, 2017, 07:14 PM
I got a couple of doors back due to KA+ peeling after 2 years. Doors were sticky and had streaks on them. Cleaned with acetone, sanded, cleaned again.

Thought I did a good job....

Found out the gunk was hand soap. The doors are directly below soap dispensers. I choose the wrong cleaning solvent, 50/50 mix of water and DNA did the job.

I wiped the wet Surfacer and reshot right away, I wanted a better look at what the product was doing.

Tom
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: usatu on January 17, 2017, 09:24 PM
If you learn something new every day, you can teach something new every day. [big grin]
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: frodo on January 17, 2017, 09:43 PM
is that a normal reaction from paint having soap sit on it?
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: tjbnwi on January 17, 2017, 09:51 PM
is that a normal reaction from paint having soap sit on it?

From what I understand the soap has been getting on these doors for the last 2 years.

Those are fisheyes. The soap had penetrated into the wood causing the Surfacer to react adversely. I don't know what brand the soap is, without the MSDS I don't know what ingredient is caused the problem.

Silicone is the most common cause of fisheyes.

Tom
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: Bob Wolfe on January 18, 2017, 06:50 PM
Perhaps they are using an antiseptic soap with a high alcohol content or similar.  Interesting to see the spec sheet on the soap. BW
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: frodo on January 18, 2017, 07:14 PM
If it is expected that the exposure to soap would be an ongoing problem, what would be the preferred topcoat?
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: tjbnwi on January 18, 2017, 07:38 PM
If it is expected that the exposure to soap would be an ongoing problem, what would be the preferred topcoat?

Not sure right now. The architect will not allow the use of conversion varnish due to VOC's. If the problem reoccurs I'll see if he'll approve 2K urethane.

Tom
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: Tim Raleigh on January 18, 2017, 08:28 PM
If it is expected that the exposure to soap would be an ongoing problem, what would be the preferred topcoat?

Not sure right now. The architect will not allow the use of conversion varnish due to VOC's. If the problem reoccurs I'll see if he'll approve 2K urethane.

Mohawk makes a waterbourne conversion varnish. They don't tint but if you need white it may work.
Did the original spec require Kem Aqua or an acrylic?
Tim

Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: tjbnwi on January 18, 2017, 09:58 PM
If it is expected that the exposure to soap would be an ongoing problem, what would be the preferred topcoat?

Not sure right now. The architect will not allow the use of conversion varnish due to VOC's. If the problem reoccurs I'll see if he'll approve 2K urethane.

Mohawk makes a waterbourne conversion varnish. They don't tint but if you need white it may work.
Did the original spec require Kem Aqua or an acrylic?
Tim

Had to meet the VOC spec, I choose Kem Aqua. Submitted the TDS and MSDS for his approval.

This is Navajo White, BM match.

Tom
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: kcufstoidi on January 19, 2017, 07:48 AM
Soaps and finished wood products don't play nice together. Prolonged and continuous exposure can and will cause these issues. Most soaps whether hand or dish are designed to cut oil and grease. I learned this lesson with a few wood countertops and people that don't follow instructions. It seems that only the epoxy or very toxic finishes that most don't have access to use can take soap abuse.

John
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: demographic on January 19, 2017, 01:22 PM

Not sure right now. The architect will not allow the use of conversion varnish due to VOC's. If the problem reoccurs I'll see if he'll approve 2K urethane.

Tom

Did the artichoke approve the fitting of a soap dispenser where it drips onto a door?
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: tjbnwi on January 19, 2017, 01:44 PM

Not sure right now. The architect will not allow the use of conversion varnish due to VOC's. If the problem reoccurs I'll see if he'll approve 2K urethane.

Tom

Did the artichoke approve the fitting of a soap dispenser where it drips onto a door?

Probably. 

Do a search for The Dutchman with my user name. 

Tom
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: leakyroof on January 19, 2017, 04:54 PM
The way I see it Tom, you're not immune to other peoples poor planning...... [wink]
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: tjbnwi on January 19, 2017, 06:19 PM
The way I see it Tom, you're not immune to other peoples poor planning...... [wink]

Thanks for the thought.

The title refers to me/my not getting it cleaned properly before I shot it. That's on me.

Tom
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: wptski on January 19, 2017, 07:37 PM
Thanks for the thought.

The title refers to me/my not getting it cleaned properly before I shot it. That's on me.

Tom
Other than trying to spray the item, how would/could one test it??
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: tjbnwi on January 19, 2017, 07:58 PM
Thanks for the thought.

The title refers to me/my not getting it cleaned properly before I shot it. That's on me.

Tom
Other than trying to spray the item, how would/could one test it??

Can't. I was relying on experience----epic failure...

Tom
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: Tim Raleigh on January 19, 2017, 09:46 PM
Can't. I was relying on experience----epic failure...

LOL, did the same.
I had a door that I thought I had cleaned but there was something that had been absorbed into the MDF door. My primer (wood and wall) went on OK, but when I hit it with the Kem Aqua, and it started to dry it blistered.
crap happens.
Tim
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: Ntex on May 18, 2017, 11:03 AM
Can't. I was relying on experience----epic failure...

LOL, did the same.
I had a door that I thought I had cleaned but there was something that had been absorbed into the MDF door. My primer (wood and wall) went on OK, but when I hit it with the Kem Aqua, and it started to dry it blistered.
crap happens.
Tim

Can you use SW wood and wall primer as the primer for Kem Aqua Plus? It'd be helpful if I could use that instead of the surfacer (I ran out)

Thanks
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: Tim Raleigh on June 11, 2017, 01:31 PM
Can you use SW wood and wall primer as the primer for Kem Aqua Plus? It'd be helpful if I could use that instead of the surfacer (I ran out)

Yes, I do all the time. SW Wood and Wall is a very good primer and reacts well with Kem Aqua plus.
Tim
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: tjbnwi on June 11, 2017, 02:05 PM
Can you use SW wood and wall primer as the primer for Kem Aqua Plus? It'd be helpful if I could use that instead of the surfacer (I ran out)

Yes, I do all the time. SW Wood and Wall is a very good primer and reacts well with Kem Aqua plus.
Tim

Gotta love when I/we miss a question for few weeks. By now I hope he tried it and found out it works just fine.

Tom
Title: Re: No one is immune....
Post by: Tim Raleigh on June 13, 2017, 11:04 AM
Gotta love when I/we miss a question for few weeks. By now I hope he tried it and found out it works just fine.

Work got in the way of actually trying to help... [big grin] [wink]
Tim