Author Topic: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US  (Read 1886 times)

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Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5799
  • Festool Baby.....
Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« on: March 01, 2019, 11:11 AM »
I posted this before had a fun chat with with our friends accross the pond. Since there are so many new people here now, I thought Id post it again.

Fun read
https://www.popularwoodworking.com/woodworking-blogs/table-saw-safety-why-the-british-think-were-crazy/

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 344
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2019, 11:32 AM »
Not to mention the clear superiority (in terms of space savings, health & safety and flexibility) afforded by push-pull saws, sliding tables and track saws, all of which (at least as I understand it) hail from the mainland. Thank goodness for those who apply different approaches to the same tasks! However, I would have to argue that we Norteamericanos/as excel at hacks, mods and general ingenuity, a factor no doubt of it having been the "wild west" over here for so long....
ETS 150/5 EQ (DE) [po], TS 75 EQ (DE) [po], OF 1400 EQ-F (DE) [n], CXS (DE) [n], CMS-GE [DE] [po], CMS TS 75 (DE) [n], LA-CS 50/CMS (DE) [po], VB-CMS (DE) [n], MFT/3 (CZ) [n], DF 700 EQ w/Seneca Small Mortise Kit (DE) [po], FEIN Multimaster 350 QSL (DE) [n], Bosch 1274DVS w/dust collection, sanding frame,  stand & fence (CH) [n], BOSCH 1590EVS w/dust collection (CH) [n], CS Unitec CS 1445 HEPA extractor <re-branded Starmix ISP 1435 H> (DE) [n], CT SYS (DE) [po], Milwaukee 0302-20 (US) [n], Two (2) Porter Cable 862 (TW) [n], Porter Cable 447 (US) [n], Zyliss Vise (CH) [n], Hitachi C 8FB (JP) [h]

[po] pre-owned   [n] new   [h] heirloom   (XX) country of origin

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 688
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2019, 11:52 AM »
I own a pull-push saw and absolutely adore it. As mentioned, one of my favorite features is the ability to adjust the rip fence so it only extends to the arbor of the blade, I've found it much safer when processing solid lumber. Plus, I've found that I'm much more comfortable using the pull-cutting function, as opposed to using a miter saw...
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Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4170
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2019, 01:02 PM »
I own a pull-push saw and absolutely adore it. As mentioned, one of my favorite features is the ability to adjust the rip fence so it only extends to the arbor of the blade, I've found it much safer when processing solid lumber. Plus, I've found that I'm much more comfortable using the pull-cutting function, as opposed to using a miter saw...

Really old table saws 8 or so decades had fences that stopped at the arbor.

That said I wouldn’t want to loose my Paralok fence that is over 4 feet long. Before buying a track saw I used that extra length to straighten the edges of boards. It could take several passes but it was a comfortable process and a better outcome than using my shortbed jointer.

Offline leakyroof

  • Posts: 2280
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2019, 01:36 PM »
Okay, I have questions.....  If the Table Saw Arbor is fixed, and you're feeding your work along the fence, which ends at the area of the arbor, aren't you at risk of a Kickback due to possible tilting or angling of the work on the back side of the saw blade while you continue to push your workpiece through a cut?
 I'm picturing a square piece of wood, say 8 x8 or 12 x12.
Not as many Sanders as PA Floor guy.....

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1266
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2019, 02:06 PM »
"Really old table saws 8 or so decades ...... "


Something like this?
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline RKA

  • Posts: 1718
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2019, 04:12 PM »
Okay, I have questions.....  If the Table Saw Arbor is fixed, and you're feeding your work along the fence, which ends at the area of the arbor, aren't you at risk of a Kickback due to possible tilting or angling of the work on the back side of the saw blade while you continue to push your workpiece through a cut?
 I'm picturing a square piece of wood, say 8 x8 or 12 x12.

I guess if you're pushing against the fence during the cut, as you finish the cut the trailing edge of the work would fall off away from the blade as you finish guiding the work past the blade.  If you didn't, you only made that mistake once as they say. 

It's interesting, since I've only ever grown up seeing a fence that runs the length of the table.  But the idea of shifting the fence so you have more infeed support and eliminating support behind the blade is interesting if you're working alone and pushing the stock through. 
-Raj

Offline box185

  • Posts: 79
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2019, 04:51 PM »
"Really old table saws 8 or so decades ...... "


Something like this?

. . . or this


Offline Michael Kellough

  • Posts: 4170
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2019, 06:34 PM »
Ick! No, that rusty old thing was a toy in it’s prime. I’m thinking of a 16” Oliver. Those old guys used the blade as a guide. Once a straight cut was established they would keep the running kerf in line with the blade and the fence was irrelevant.

Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 439
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2019, 08:38 PM »
Okay, I have questions.....  If the Table Saw Arbor is fixed, and you're feeding your work along the fence, which ends at the area of the arbor, aren't you at risk of a Kickback due to possible tilting or angling of the work on the back side of the saw blade while you continue to push your workpiece through a cut?
 I'm picturing a square piece of wood, say 8 x8 or 12 x12.

In the  UK we have the fence in line with arbour (just past actually) when cutting solid wood which has internal tension and can move/bend once you cut it but will have the fence running longer/past the back of blade when cutting for example sheet goods like mdf or ply which are more stable and should not bind on blade or spring.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1266
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2019, 04:50 AM »
The Delta Unifence is the only TS fence I remember with that capability here in the US. And long out of production AFAIK.

Here's the manual (hosted on Delta's website) with a photo on the cover. I found many images of the Unifence in a Google search, but none that showed the fence being used with the fence slid back so the far end of the fence was in line with the arbor.

https://downloads.ctfassets.net/gm9b93lui52t/3T05eqfpUkqUMCw2umgAMs/3cf4a73214dca39ff9ce2e974f51d141/En422-27-655-0028.pdf
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It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline box185

  • Posts: 79
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2019, 06:59 AM »
Alan Little’s design also allows the fence to be repositioned. Currently available too.

Other than being a customer, I have no connection to VSC Tools.

https://vsctools.com/shop/product-category/table-saw-fence/

Offline rst

  • Posts: 2227
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2019, 07:33 AM »
I have 50" 8020 1545 extrusion attached to my Beismeyer fence in a similar fashion to the VSC tools fence.  Makes it easy to attach feather boards, other guides and baffles.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5799
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2019, 01:02 PM »
@Doug S

>>In the  UK we have the fence in line with arbour (just past actually) when cutting solid wood which has internal tension and can move/bend once you cut it but will have the fence running longer/past the back of blade when cutting for example sheet goods like mdf or ply which are more stable and should not bind on blade or spring.<<

Hmm I learned something today from you. Ive set the fence on my CMS to where it stops at the  back of the saw blade and left it there.

But because the TS has a toe in it only cuts off the front tooth of the saw. So maybe I should move my fence up to like you said where it stops at the arbor .


Offline Doug S

  • Posts: 439
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2019, 02:04 PM »
@Doug S

>>In the  UK we have the fence in line with arbour (just past actually) when cutting solid wood which has internal tension and can move/bend once you cut it but will have the fence running longer/past the back of blade when cutting for example sheet goods like mdf or ply which are more stable and should not bind on blade or spring.<<

Hmm I learned something today from you. Ive set the fence on my CMS to where it stops at the  back of the saw blade and left it there.

But because the TS has a toe in it only cuts off the front tooth of the saw. So maybe I should move my fence up to like you said where it stops at the arbor .



I have just read my post again and it probably wasn't totally clear (I had just come back from the pub). When ripping solid timber we would have the fence ending between the front of blade and arbour, normally closer to the front of blade.

Here is a link to the UK Health and Safety regulations for the table saw if anyone is interested.

 http://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/wis16.pdf

In the UK many people are horrified by the way America uses the table saw, I can see why you guys have SawStop.




Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5799
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2019, 04:27 PM »
Got it thanks, Ill pull the fence fwd a tad. Say it the same with most euro countries to have the fence set like that?

Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 561
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2019, 12:49 AM »

But because the TS has a toe in it only cuts off the front tooth of the saw. So maybe I should move my fence up to like you said where it stops at the arbor .

Can you elaborate on this "toe in",  I think some other thread this was mentioned in passing with no explanation.

Offline Tom Gensmer

  • Posts: 688
  • Residential Remodeler in Minnesota
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2019, 02:18 PM »

But because the TS has a toe in it only cuts off the front tooth of the saw. So maybe I should move my fence up to like you said where it stops at the arbor .

Can you elaborate on this "toe in",  I think some other thread this was mentioned in passing with no explanation.

Many saws with circular blades have the blade skewed VERY slightly relative to the work to avoid tear-out and/or burning. For instance, most higher-end track saws will have the blade skewed very slightly counter-clockwise. My local Festool rep used to suggest that, with the blade at maximum depth, the front teeth should be touching the guide strip, and you should be able to slip a business card between the anti splinter strip and the teeth at the rear of the blade.

My ERIKA 70 is set up similarly, in that it is skewed very slightly clockwise, so the "keeper" pieces on the left side of the blade only ever see the teeth at the front of the blade, and there is a paper-thin gap at the rear of the blade. So, when ripping on the right side of the blade, I just need to make sure I have my fence shimmed appropriately to take the blade skew into account.

The effect of a skewed or toed-in blade is great, you just need to know that the skew is there and not get tied into knots trying to make everything parallel.
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Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5799
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Table saw Set Up Difference Between UK And US
« Reply #18 on: March 13, 2019, 11:46 AM »
@Doug S

well I decided to try using the angle stop/ Compass that came with the CMS as a fence for the CMS 75 ILO the CS50 accessory fence that I had been using.

I adjusted it to about center of the blade. It does a pretty good job that way. I find its alot easier to use and  rip with