Festool Owners Group

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS => Home Improvement & Other Projects => Topic started by: Dva99999 on January 05, 2019, 08:06 AM

Title: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 05, 2019, 08:06 AM
This is my first post as I’ve been searching through a minefield and still no closer to what I need.
I’m a DIYer with no great skills but I am looking for a sander that can do both wood and metal. I plan on restoring the bodywork on my car and need something that I can just plug into the wall using 220/240v and work (if necessary) for hours until finished. I also have a large dining table which I want to strip and refinish in a colour to match my partners dining room. I also have a bed in a similar colour which I also want to strip and refinish in a different colour. The bed is not overly detailed but it does have the usual corners and edges.
I don’t have a shop vac, I want to be able to connect it to a standard vacuum cleaner (Dyson) as my budget will only stretch so far I.e around the £350-450 mark.
I’ve looked at Dewalts and Mirkas but keep coming back to Festool.
Do Festool do a product that can tick all those boxes.
Thank you in advance
D
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Mortiser on January 05, 2019, 09:36 AM
ETS-EC 125/3 and you can optionally put a 6" pad on it. This sander is a joy to use. You need to save for a dust extractor for it... a CT-26 preferably or at least a Midi.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: TinyShop on January 05, 2019, 10:05 AM
I second the recommendation to get a dedicated dust extractor. You can use your household vacuum but doing so will rapidly destroy it and it won't be able to properly filter the air that it expels. If you're pinching pennies rent a HEPA vac (""H" Class" in your neck of the woods) for a day or look for something pre-owned. If you go with another household vac just don't be surprised when it dies a rapid death (especially if its a non-HEPA bagless) and spreads toxic dust all over your workspace/home, etc.

Accordingly, you may want to ask yourself what your health (and that of your family/neighbors) is worth and then plan accordingly. Knowing what we now know about the negative health consequences of materials like wood dust, body filler dust, etc., I wouldn't be caught dead sanding anything without a proper dust extractor and, absent that (or even in conjunction with that), a high quality respirator.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Gregor on January 05, 2019, 11:29 AM
I have used a RO150 with a Dyson as extractor with no ill effect to the Dyson, it shut down though a few times as it was overheating (as of not enough airflow). The HEPA argument is moot with a Dyson as they are HEPA too (they have a foam filter after the cyclone).

Nevertheless: the Festool CTs have the upside of being not that loud - and you can turn them down, something you definitively want to be able to when sanding. Also no hazzle with obtaining hose connectors and such.

I would suggest getting a CT 26 or a MIDI when buying a Festool sander, especially as there's a deal available that reduces the price when you buy a tool and a vac at the same time.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: TinyShop on January 05, 2019, 11:44 AM
Just to be clear, just because a vacuum is fitted with a HEPA filter doesn't mean it is a) capable of preventing dirty air from exiting the machine (via seals, joints, etc.) - only those that meet the various certifications requirements (much more stringent in the U.K. and Europe than the U.S.) can be said to be accomplish that or b) capable over the long term of being able to handle the volume of dust generated in the woodworking, metal working and remodeling trades, etc.

Not that this is rocket science but having seen my share of the internals of various makes and model of vacuums, there still exists wide differences among machines designed for home and work with respect to their ability to to handle high volumes of fine dust and prevent hazardous particles from being expelled back into the air.     
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 05, 2019, 11:47 AM
ETS-EC 125/3 and you can optionally put a 6" pad on it. This sander is a joy to use. You need to save for a dust extractor for it... a CT-26 preferably or at least a Midi.

Coincidentally, I’ve been looking at an ETS-EC 150/5. I’m assuming this is a larger one.
As for the extractor, that’s way out of my price band for now although I do understand the need for a good dust extractor. Noise is not an issue as I have a petrol generator operating most of the time for other tools.
Thank you for your responses.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Gregor on January 05, 2019, 11:51 AM
https://www.festoolproducts.com/festool-package-discounts.html might be interesting to you.

The ETS EC 150/5 is a great sander, but in case you're money constrained and looking to get only one that rules everything... also look at the Rotex 150.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Cheese on January 05, 2019, 12:16 PM
ETS-EC 125/3 and you can optionally put a 6" pad on it. This sander is a joy to use. You need to save for a dust extractor for it... a CT-26 preferably or at least a Midi.

I'd also go for the ETS EC 125.  [big grin]

Automobile repair = 5" pad
Large table = 6" pad
Bed project = 5" & 6" pad

Hard pad for the wooden items and a hard & soft pad for the bodywork.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: mcooley on January 05, 2019, 12:35 PM
ETS EC 125 is the one I find myself going to time and time again. I have the Rotex 125 but really don't like the ergonomics and handling etc. The two do different things but the 125 I find is more of use in my shop. One note, it can be challenging to not get pigtails on the Rotex in either mode where with the 125 I rarely have an issue. In general per Festool's advice it is best to use orbital sanders in multiple directions but which ought to be controlled motions and not haphazard ones.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 05, 2019, 01:21 PM
ETS-EC 125/3 and you can optionally put a 6" pad on it. This sander is a joy to use. You need to save for a dust extractor for it... a CT-26 preferably or at least a Midi.

I'd also go for the ETS EC 125.  [big grin]

Automobile repair = 5" pad
Large table = 6" pad
Bed project = 5" & 6" pad

Hard pad for the wooden items and a hard & soft pad for the bodywork.

Excellent
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: leakyroof on January 05, 2019, 03:41 PM
ETS-EC 125/3 and you can optionally put a 6" pad on it. This sander is a joy to use. You need to save for a dust extractor for it... a CT-26 preferably or at least a Midi.

I'd also go for the ETS EC 125.  [big grin]

Automobile repair = 5" pad
Large table = 6" pad
Bed project = 5" & 6" pad

Hard pad for the wooden items and a hard & soft pad for the bodywork.

Excellent
  As an added benefit, the body of the EC sanders resembles the Pneumatic Sanders you'd find in an Auto Body Shop, so the lightweight and comfortable body of an EC sander is nice to have for vertical sanding at a long work period of time if you're going to be there.
 You'll want Grant Abrasive or something similar since it will handle Raw Wood, Finished Wood, Painted Wood and Painted Metal with resistance to clogging.  Body Putty and Bondo should also be okay with Granat.
 As noted, having some kind of Extractor will not only prolong the life of your abrasive discs, improve the surface of your work, but help protect your health as well.  Look for a decent used one if new is out of your budget.
 There are other Vacs out there besides Festool. 
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 05, 2019, 04:34 PM
My partner has just “handed” me an extra £150 so it looks like the ETS-EC 150/5. I think she has an eye on me doing some external work at some point!! I have looked and seen there are other shop vacs out there, so I’ll get one of those but at least I can up my budget.
All your info has been very helpful thank you.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 05, 2019, 05:59 PM
Why is the suction hose over £150....surely for small jobs I can use dustbags. I know that the suction hose will come in handy but if I was to purchase a shop vac with hose attachment would that not do the same job?
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 05, 2019, 06:19 PM
Actually it is the 125mm I’m looking at, however the 150/5 comes bundled with the suction hose at altogether cheaper than the 125mm.
Strange...but I’m still going for the 125mm as given everything I’ve read it is a good all rounder and as mentioned above I can add a 6” sanding pad.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: ColossusX on January 05, 2019, 06:36 PM
It was my understanding that the ETS EC requires a dust extractor. You cant use a dust bag
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Cheese on January 05, 2019, 07:01 PM
It was my understanding that the ETS EC requires a dust extractor. You cant use a dust bag

Correct, the entire ETS EC series does not have internal fans for dust collection. It’s probably part of the reason why they have such a low profile.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: dudeabides on January 05, 2019, 07:57 PM
i just picked up a RO150 and a CT26 with CTcyclone and its been a great joy to use. Mostly wood dust for me.  If you have a good stream of sanding jobs ahead of you and want/can invest in the primo best. They are awesome! and if they're treated well, you'd have no trouble selling them if you needed to. Cheers!
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: fuzzy logic on January 05, 2019, 08:54 PM
I think satisfactory dust extraction is really important - the ability to vary the speed of the 'vacuum' will enable you to get optimum extraction and best finish possible; whilst prolonging the life of whatever abrasive sheets you use. 
A part of me would, almost, want a good extractor to start with... even if it meant getting less desireable sander(s) to start with. 

(Don't know if worth following up - but see there is a 240v Midi dust extractor on eBay at the moment - might need a bit of a tidy up?  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Festool-CTL-Midi-workshop-hoover/233079616390 ) 

Richard UK.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Pnw painter on January 06, 2019, 03:53 AM
The ETS-EC sanders are the best well rounded sander in the Festool lineup. They’re light, powerful, small and very comfortable to use for long periods of time. If you can only afford one sander this is what I’d recommend.

About the only time I use my Rotex sanders is when I need to remove a lot of material quickly. Beyond that they’re heavy and very cumbersome to use.


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Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 06, 2019, 04:28 AM
It was my understanding that the ETS EC requires a dust extractor. You cant use a dust bag
On the accessory page of their website they list the turbo dust bags as a compatible accessory.
If this is incorrect then I’m going to have to wait or look at what Mirka have to offer (although I’ve read there are reliability issues with the Deros).
My head hurts.... [crying]
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 06, 2019, 04:30 AM
I think satisfactory dust extraction is really important - the ability to vary the speed of the 'vacuum' will enable you to get optimum extraction and best finish possible; whilst prolonging the life of whatever abrasive sheets you use. 
A part of me would, almost, want a good extractor to start with... even if it meant getting less desireable sander(s) to start with. 

(Don't know if worth following up - but see there is a 240v Midi dust extractor on eBay at the moment - might need a bit of a tidy up?  https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Festool-CTL-Midi-workshop-hoover/233079616390 ) 

Richard UK.
I’ve seen this....it is a collection only item and I doubt it will fit in my little car. I am watching it and looking at shop vacs from Machine Mart as an alternative.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Alex on January 06, 2019, 04:55 AM
I've used home vacs for years before I got my first Festool vac, they work just fine if you can live without the auto start.

My Mini vacs fit the back of my bike, surely they will fit any car bigger than a dinky toy?
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: ryanjg117 on January 06, 2019, 05:16 AM
On a budget, you can find Fein Turbo vacs at a mere fraction of what Festool CTs cost. I see them pop up all the time on Craigslist for $200 or less, and they do have the auto-start feature.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Cheese on January 06, 2019, 09:56 AM
On the accessory page of their website they list the turbo dust bags as a compatible accessory.
If this is incorrect then I’m going to have to wait or look at what Mirka have to offer (although I’ve read there are reliability issues with the Deros).
My head hurts.... [crying]

If you go to the accessory page, the dust bags are listed for use with a ETS 125, ETSC 125 and ETS 150. Under the ETS EC 125 & ETS EC 150 columns the boxes are empty.

The Mirka Deros 5650X will run about $600+ and I believe it also needs a direct attachment to a vac, no dust bag available.

An ETS EC 125 runs $400 while a used Fein Turbo runs $200. That combo will give you more bang for your buck. Or you can just run the ETS EC 125 off of your Dyson.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: rst on January 06, 2019, 10:38 AM
The Festool vacs are great, but not the only viable choice.  My first three vacs were Feins, all a connected to steel Oneida Dust Deputys and are tool station specific.  The fourth one, a new style II, I bought because I got it with the accessories and the electric beater for the price of the basic vac,I am a real sucker for a great deal.  I also have three Festools, a Midi that is cutting station specific sits under an Oneida Festool dust deputy.  I have a 26 that sits under a Festool work center and a Sys Vac that lives in my van.  Lastly, within two weeks of buying the last Fein, I won a $700.00 Hitachi- actually Metabo Hepa from Protoolreveiws.  I think my vac needs are pretty much covered and I do not think any one of them is marginally superior to the others.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Cheese on January 06, 2019, 10:55 AM
I think my vac needs are pretty much covered and I do not think any one of them is marginally superior to the others.

I also have a Fein Turbo II that works well. It's a nice vac, but it does not have variable suction so I keep it with the Kapex. Fein makes a good vac for the money. 
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 06, 2019, 04:14 PM
Absolutely love the advice given. I’m going to try my hand at a few from Amazon. I’ve seen a Vacmaster multi 20 which is cheap with some positive reviews (it’s easy to spot the real from the questionable). At a fraction under £70 it also features a power socket to plug the sander in so it’s worth a try. Am I correct in also saying that part number #452879 would be the correct adapter for fitting 3rd party vacs to the sander?
I’ve seen the Festool setup in action so eventually I will invest in a Festool vac with the 3rd party one confined to the garage....it’s much the same way I converted from Windows to Apple 20 years ago, the initial costs were high and it was an expensive learning curve, but there’s no regrets and no going back.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Pnw painter on January 06, 2019, 10:19 PM
If you have a local Festool dealer I’d recommend buying from them. For the most part, Festool enforces pricing so you won’t save anything buying from Amazon and it’ll make it easier if you happen to need any customer service.

Also remember to buy some Festool abrasives with your sander. The hole patterns that Festool uses is different than what you’ll typically find from 3M, Norton, etc...


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Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 07, 2019, 01:29 AM
If you have a local Festool dealer I’d recommend buying from them. For the most part, Festool enforces pricing so you won’t save anything buying from Amazon and it’ll make it easier if you happen to need any customer service.

Also remember to buy some Festool abrasives with your sander. The hole patterns that Festool uses is different than what you’ll typically find from 3M, Norton, etc...


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Thank you
Yes that’s my intention....the vacs I’m trying out will be from Amazon. I’m giving Toolfest a call later as they have some good pricing and only sell Festool products. Unfortunately I can’t take advantage of the 10% discount from Festool as it only applies to US customers...but pricing from Toolfest is quite competitive.
Yes I’ll get some Rubin’s to start with as I’m only stripping back a table and bed for the moment.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Gregor on January 07, 2019, 09:56 AM
Yes that’s my intention....the vacs I’m trying out will be from Amazon. I’m giving Toolfest a call later as they have some good pricing and only sell Festool products. Unfortunately I can’t take advantage of the 10% discount from Festool as it only applies to US customers...but pricing from Toolfest is quite competitive.
That's because they're (for the moment) in the EU where the cartel price fixing that's happening in the US is illegal, thus the Festools dealers on our side of the ocean are free to sell at prices they select (which allows for haggling).

Might be worth to ask if they're willing to offer a similar deal to you for buying multiple things at once.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: leakyroof on January 07, 2019, 12:40 PM
If you have a local Festool dealer I’d recommend buying from them. For the most part, Festool enforces pricing so you won’t save anything buying from Amazon and it’ll make it easier if you happen to need any customer service.

Also remember to buy some Festool abrasives with your sander. The hole patterns that Festool uses is different than what you’ll typically find from 3M, Norton, etc...


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Thank you
Yes that’s my intention....the vacs I’m trying out will be from Amazon. I’m giving Toolfest a call later as they have some good pricing and only sell Festool products. Unfortunately I can’t take advantage of the 10% discount from Festool as it only applies to US customers...but pricing from Toolfest is quite competitive.
Yes I’ll get some Rubin’s to start with as I’m only stripping back a table and bed for the moment.

If there is ANY type of Finish on that Bed and Table, don’t use Rubin as it will clog. It’s meant for Raw Wood. Old stocks of Cristal and Brilliant 2 along with current Granat will handle prefinished material.  Cristal and Brilliant 2 have been discontinued by Festool but you might find some old stock at a discount over current Granat prices to save money starting out.
 Brilliant 2 was used by many of us as the All Around Abrasive from Festool before we got Granat since it handles raw wood sanding and finished material.
Cristal was great for fast stripping but tended to leave scratch patterns you ended up sanding out with higher grits.

What Finish is in your Table and Bed...Lacquer, Shellac, Oil. Paint?, or Varnish?
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 07, 2019, 10:58 PM
If you have a local Festool dealer I’d recommend buying from them. For the most part, Festool enforces pricing so you won’t save anything buying from Amazon and it’ll make it easier if you happen to need any customer service.

Also remember to buy some Festool abrasives with your sander. The hole patterns that Festool uses is different than what you’ll typically find from 3M, Norton, etc...


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you
Yes that’s my intention....the vacs I’m trying out will be from Amazon. I’m giving Toolfest a call later as they have some good pricing and only sell Festool products. Unfortunately I can’t take advantage of the 10% discount from Festool as it only applies to US customers...but pricing from Toolfest is quite competitive.
Yes I’ll get some Rubin’s to start with as I’m only stripping back a table and bed for the moment.

If there is ANY type of Finish on that Bed and Table, don’t use Rubin as it will clog. It’s meant for Raw Wood. Old stocks of Cristal and Brilliant 2 along with current Granat will handle prefinished material.  Cristal and Brilliant 2 have been discontinued by Festool but you might find some old stock at a discount over current Granat prices to save money starting out.
 Brilliant 2 was used by many of us as the All Around Abrasive from Festool before we got Granat since it handles raw wood sanding and finished material.
Cristal was great for fast stripping but tended to leave scratch patterns you ended up sanding out with higher grits.

What Finish is in your Table and Bed...Lacquer, Shellac, Oil. Paint?, or Varnish?
Noted...the bed and table are waxed.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: leakyroof on January 08, 2019, 08:08 AM
Hah, Wax, the one thing I didn’t think of...  [embarassed]
You might be okay with it, I’ve never tried Rubin on a Waxed piece before, so I don’t know. You could always bum 1 disc off a supplier and try it out before committing to an Abrasive. Here in the US however, most commercial Festool users stock only Granat for themselves and their kits since it handles such a wide range of materials.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 08, 2019, 06:25 PM
The more I look into this the more I steer towards the Rotex....I didn’t realise when I initially asked the question the number of options Festool do.
And to think I almost bought a Mirka Deros!!
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: leakyroof on January 08, 2019, 07:23 PM
The more I look into this the more I steer towards the Rotex....I didn’t realise when I initially asked the question the number of options Festool do.
And to think I almost bought a Mirka Deros!!
. I own two Rotex Sanders, 150 and the smaller 90.  Please try them and the other Sanders out in person before mentally committing to a Rotex.
My EC Sanders WILL strip finishes, even with the smaller 3mm orbit on my smaller EC 125.
I’ve neatly removed ancient Varnish and Oil Stains off doors in my home and not suffered much time by not pulling my Rotex out unless the Rotex is really called for.  As a bonus, my hands weren’t tired like they would have been using a Rotex in Rotex mode to strip the finishes off.
Also, I can strip vertical trim/ casing, baseboards, as long as the pad sizes fit the project.
The EC Sanders are that powerful, even with a smaller orbit. You just use Coarse Abrasives like 40grit or 60 grit Granat and Saphir.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: Dva99999 on January 09, 2019, 11:33 AM
Having looked at the videos I have narrowed it down. Unfortunately getting a dealer to let me have a go at the two I’ve narrowed it down too is proving to be a trial in itself. Nobody has them in stock or nobody is calling me back. I ordered the Rotex 150 from one company based on their stock (and they were the cheapest) only to be told the online info was wrong and they don’t stock it!! I like the Rotex 150 because after stripping down a table and bed, I like the fact I can polish afterwards using same unit. I also find it would be helpful when I start the car restoration from start to finish. I’m not yet at the stage to go in and buy two units but in time that may well be a possibility.
Title: Re: New person looking for first (proper) sander
Post by: terry314159 on August 04, 2019, 03:55 PM
I bought a Festool 574993 ETS125 sander. I coupled it to my Dyson 23 canister vacuum with a 10’ x 1 3/16” OD Dust Collection Power Tool Hose with Fittings supplied by Peachtree Woodworking Supply through Amazon ($20). The adapter fitting allowed the one hose end to connect perfectly to the sander and the other adapter allowed the hose to make a tight press fit into the end of the Dyson hose. I added an Automated Vacuum Switch supplied by iVac through Amazon ($50) that automatically cycles the Dyson on/off as I use the sander. I strapped the switch to the Dyson for convenience. The switch is not required but it is nice to have. The whole system works perfectly for my home maintenance jobs. In preparation for painting, I just finished sanding down all my wife’s kitchen cabinets with so little dust she was able to use her kitchen during the project.