Author Topic: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?  (Read 4692 times)

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Offline mrFinpgh

  • Posts: 318
Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« on: May 24, 2019, 06:46 PM »
So I have an older(1937) house with a little porch that's about 150 sq ft.

The ceiling on the porch is beadboard with a paint on it.  The top layer is alligatoring and I would be surprised if the bottom layers were to test negative for lead, although I haven't actually tested it yet.

I'm contemplating what to do about it and considering a couple options:

1) pay painters to scrape and sand, encapsulate with fiberlock, and repaint.
2) Chemical strip back down to wood
3) Remove and replace the beadboard and crown trim

Are there other options I'm considering that I should be thinking about?  Those of you who do this for a living, what would you suggest? The house is not in any way historically significant.

I've attached a couple shots of it for detail.

Thanks,
Adam


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Offline JD2720

  • Posts: 1100
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2019, 08:26 PM »
Cover it with vinyl bead board.

Offline waho6o9

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Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2019, 11:35 PM »
Given the choices I'd pick:

3) Remove and replace the beadboard and crown trim

Best of luck

Offline TinyShop

  • Posts: 345
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #3 on: May 25, 2019, 12:03 AM »
Just cover it with new t&g beadboard. Encapsulates any issues and once it's up you'll never think about it again.  Use quarter round for the transition at the perimeter or retrim the rest of the ceiling - up to you.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 12:07 AM by TinyShop »
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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6452
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #4 on: May 25, 2019, 12:30 AM »
Let’s put it this way, if you had bad drywall would you just cover it over?

If not, then just remove the offending material and do a reinstall. Pretty easy project.

It’s only 150 square feet.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 12:53 AM by Cheese »

Offline Alex

  • Posts: 6111
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #5 on: May 25, 2019, 12:55 AM »
3) Just replace it or cover it. Easiest and cheapest solution with the best result.

1) Pay painters? Ouch, expensive for very little gain.
2) Chemical strip? Above your head? More ouch, feel your flesh burn away from the acid dripping down your neck.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1291
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #6 on: May 25, 2019, 06:11 AM »
I would remove the old beadboard and install new.

Advantages:
-No added weight.
-No potential 'hidden' hazard from untested paint.
-No unvented space between layers that WILL trap moisture (being as this is outside and
  you know the humidity level will go above 90% on numerous occasions).
-No loss of detail in ceiling and/or molding to accommodate the added layer of beadboard.

Disadvantages:
-Proper disposal of potentially hazardous material(unless test results are negative).
-Cost of testing for presence of lead.
-Additional time to remove old beadboard,
-Additional time for site containment during demo and cleanup.
-There could still be safety issues with removing the headboard depending on methods
  used for removal. (PPE other than eye protection may be required).
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 06:14 AM by Bob D. »
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Offline jobsworth

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Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2019, 11:31 AM »
IMO (What I would do is) , like most things it depends. Are you fixing it up to sell it or just doing some repairs?

If your selling it, I would scrape the loose paint off, use a compound to smooth it, caulk the gaps and repaint.

If your staying in the home, its something you want to repair, as its prolly on the front of the house and will improve the appearance dramatically. As its the first thing people see when they come to visit.

Then Id Replace the bead board, and due to its age your prolly gonna find some issues with the joist that will need to be repairs/replaced.

If you just cover it up by going over it with new bead board you are covering up what ever issues that may be there and could come back and haunt you.

Remember its a old home.

 So plan for that. there may not be anything that needs repair/replacing but plan for it in your budget.

Once the bead board is off then if you want you can up grade add things like can lights update the wiring if any is there (old home maybe old wiring) Now is the time to do things like that think about what you or the wife may want as you got everything open and now would be the time. Something to think about anyway.

Do the repairs, replace what is needed to be replace, and when you replace the bead board, ensure that there are no gaps, caulk the joints and repaint.
« Last Edit: May 25, 2019, 11:38 AM by jobsworth »

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1291
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2019, 01:37 PM »
jobsworth made some good points on inspecting/upgrading light fixtures and wiring. And about structural inspection and repair while the ceiling is open.
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Offline DeformedTree

  • Posts: 582
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2019, 04:25 PM »
Replace.  Never cover stuff up/go over it.

Scraping and such is a was of money, doesn't fix anything.  Take it down, take precautions for lead.  And now that's less lead/bad material in the house.  Good chance to check out what is above, fix structure, venting, insulation, wiring, etc.  Then re-install new.

Offline grbmds

  • Posts: 1911
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2019, 01:37 AM »
We have a covered deck in a newer house that was never finished correctly. A few years ago we had the deck enclosed with aluminum screens and the ceiling covered over with aluminum which looks a little like tongue and groove (of course it wouldn't t fool anyone). It actually looks really nice and never requires any maintenance.
Randy

Offline mrFinpgh

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Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2019, 12:17 AM »
Thanks, all.  A lot of good points to consider here. I appreciate the feedback, as I don't have many friends who know much about these things.

For added context, since @jobsworth mentioned it, the plan is to either try and sell the place or refinance it and rent it out while moving to a place with more space.  My job pays reasonably well and I'm not sure I want to take on the responsibility of landlording.. but that's another story.

For the most part, I'm seeing a lot of people advocating for replacement or enclosing with something else.

I did a bit of a cost/benefit analysis and the way I see it, the cheapest option (in materials costs) would be to strip it, but there goes my weekends for a while and I'd be spending the summer modeling the latest in tyvek garments. 

Replacing still would require some precautions during demo, but that's going to be less than a day which would keep things simple and then the risky business is done and i can see where the joists are.  I'm not sure about what regulations there are for disposal of household debris that may or may not have lead on it, so that would be a potential thing to work out ahead of time.  My research is inconclusive - if it were an institution i think it's categorized as hazardous waste.. residential seems to be classified as debris ??? .

Covering up has some appeal - no demo! - but I would be concerned about the potential for moisture issues in the future.

Are there any particular products other than beadboard which folks recommend? 

Thanks,
Adam





Offline jobsworth

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« Last Edit: May 27, 2019, 01:15 AM by jobsworth »

Offline Bob D.

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Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2019, 04:45 AM »
I have no history with this product, just pointing out since you asked about other options.

Lowes sells a product made by Armstrong called 'WoodHaven'.
It's made from MDF and comes in 5"x84" T&G panels and has a beadboard design.
Cost about $4/sf.

http://pdf.lowes.com/installationguides/00042369422741_install.pdf
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Offline mrFinpgh

  • Posts: 318
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #14 on: May 28, 2019, 12:49 PM »
T 111 would work also I forget the name of it right now but there is some siding by i seen sold at Lowes that would work.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Plytanium-T1-11-Natural-Rough-Sawn-Syp-Plywood-Panel-Siding-Common-0-594-in-x-48-in-x-96-in-Actual-0-563-in-x-47-875-in-x-95-875-in/3010839

https://www.lowes.com/pd/James-Hardie-48-in-x-96-in-HZ10-HardiePanel-Sierra-8-Fiber-Cement-Vertical-Siding/3090005

@jobsworth, how does one treat butt joints with t111?  I've got 9.5 * 16 of space to fill. i think this product could be useful but it seems like I'd need to hide those end to end joints.  One idea I had was to break the ceiling up into 3' square sections and trim out each panel.  Would like to hear what you think, though.



@Bob D.  - I'm familiar with that product and have used it in a close remodel.  It works well but I think it would be a bit problematic in an outdoor area, no?


Offline Koamolly

  • Posts: 92
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #15 on: May 28, 2019, 02:48 PM »
Check around, T 111 comes in 10’ X 4’ sheets.

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1291
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #16 on: May 28, 2019, 04:33 PM »
"  It works well but I think it would be a bit problematic in an outdoor area, no?"

I agree. I wouldn't use it myself in my climate.
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Offline jobsworth

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Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #17 on: May 28, 2019, 06:42 PM »
@mrFinpgh

Without being there and surveying the job myself, I caulk the joints prior to paint.

Offline Brs7377

  • Posts: 5
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #18 on: May 28, 2019, 09:30 PM »
We had this exact situation on our porch and did something different. We covered it with triple thick primer called "Peel bond". I think we put up three coats of it. It still has some character but drastically reduced the alligatoring and looks pretty good with the paint in my opinion and was much easier/cheaper than replacing. I consider encapsulation to be just as good as removal with respect to lead paint especially on an outdoor porch but that's just me.
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Offline Jim Kirkpatrick

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Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #19 on: May 29, 2019, 08:54 AM »
Cover it with vinyl bead board.

+1 on covering it with vinyl.  With the pictures you posted, it seems pretty solid.  If there are some areas that have water damage by all means remove and inspect.  The added bonus of covering is it will be easy to place cup hooks for chimes or hanging planters etc.

Offline mrFinpgh

  • Posts: 318
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #20 on: May 31, 2019, 12:48 PM »
We had this exact situation on our porch and did something different. We covered it with triple thick primer called "Peel bond". I think we put up three coats of it. It still has some character but drastically reduced the alligatoring and looks pretty good with the paint in my opinion and was much easier/cheaper than replacing. I consider encapsulation to be just as good as removal with respect to lead paint especially on an outdoor porch but that's just me.

I looked at doing this, but I think it comes back to the problem of the cost/time to scrape and prep the ceiling (taking precautions for lead) and encapsulating the paint. It didn't feel like the payoff was so good. 

Cover it with vinyl bead board.

+1 on covering it with vinyl.  With the pictures you posted, it seems pretty solid.  If there are some areas that have water damage by all means remove and inspect.  The added bonus of covering is it will be easy to place cup hooks for chimes or hanging planters etc.

When you guys talk about vinyl, are you talking about beadboard planks or vinyl beadboard panels?


Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 785
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #21 on: May 31, 2019, 02:10 PM »
Although I’m not bad with a paint brush etc, I really do not like painting. So for me, the painting isn’t an option. I would remove and replace.
I always get concerned when people over clad timber with vinyl or PVC, simply because it can cause the under layer to sweat or condensate, accelerating rot.
Whenever we replace soffit or fascia boards, we remove all of the existing, and often fit venting where applicable, to keep good air flow.

Remove and replace is my vote.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #22 on: May 31, 2019, 06:20 PM »
Late to the party, I would leave existing in place and look for pvc bead board to install over the existing.  If the size of the available sheets causes joint concerns then get creative.  Create a design for placement and then cover the joints with a solid piece of pic.

In theory, think about a coffered ceiling.  You can have panels of any shape and design with the joints made up decoratively.  I am not suggesting a coffered ceiling for a front porch, but rather suggesting looking at alternative thinking and being able to be creative.

Peter

Offline Paul G

  • Posts: 1986
Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #23 on: June 01, 2019, 02:11 AM »
I would replace. YMMV
+1

Offline DeformedTree

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Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #24 on: June 02, 2019, 01:03 AM »
Although I’m not bad with a paint brush etc, I really do not like painting. So for me, the painting isn’t an option. I would remove and replace.
I always get concerned when people over clad timber with vinyl or PVC, simply because it can cause the under layer to sweat or condensate, accelerating rot.
Whenever we replace soffit or fascia boards, we remove all of the existing, and often fit venting where applicable, to keep good air flow.

Remove and replace is my vote.

My house is a case in your point.  Some point someone covered painted wood trim with aluminum.  Under the aluminum the wood rotted and paint fell off.  Lovely mix of moisture+heat+no drying.   It was all replaced, but now it's aluminum over cedar, so rot resistance, no paint and properly water protected.

I don't think enough people understand the mess that forms under that vinyl / aluminum.  Out of site, out of mind.


Offline Bob D.

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Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #25 on: June 02, 2019, 05:35 AM »
"It was all replaced, but now it's aluminum over cedar, so rot resistance, no paint and properly water protected"

Any ventilation to allow the space between the cedar and aluminum to breathe.
Moisture finds a way to invade almost everything.
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Offline DeformedTree

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Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #26 on: June 02, 2019, 05:46 PM »
Yes, it's vented very well now, but also done in a way water won't get in. But if it finds a way, it can get out and it all breaths.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

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Re: Porch Ceiling.. what would you do?
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2019, 05:36 PM »
Exactly that DT, in the past we have priced to remove and replace, sometimes to be met with a reply that they’ve had cheaper quotes. So I never buy work, and leave the client to decide.
Sometimes I later see somebody has over clad the job, and think to myself, you can’t help some people.

I have seen extensive damage and rot many times, often eating into joists because of bad practice.
Air flow and anything else to combat sweating and condensation, as you well know is paramount.