Author Topic: Best Jointer for Festoolians?  (Read 11742 times)

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Offline Matthew Schenker

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Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« on: March 14, 2008, 11:20 PM »
Good Evening,
Dan Clark started it with the "Best Tablesaw" discussion, then it continued with the "Best Bandsaw..."  So why not take a look at jointers?

I'd be curious what members are using in their shops, in terms of jointer size and manufacturer.  Also, how about add-ons like better blades?  How about those of you who don't own a jointer?

I'll start off by saying that I have a Craftsman 6" jointer, one of the newer models.  It's actually a pretty good jointer (I compared it to a Ridgid, Delta, and Jet model before buying).  I added Esta Self-Set Knives a few months ago to speed up blade changes.  I'd say the Estas do what they claim, although I had some issues aligning them initially, which took away some of their benefit.

I've written about this before, but whenever I can I like to use my router table as a jointer.  Certainly, any time I have S4S wood, I joint on the router table.  Even with rough lumber, I will cut off the really crooked stuff on the bandsaw then joint on the router table using a Freud 1/2" diameter bit with a 2 1/2" cutting length, which looks like this:
5094-0

5096-1

Anyone else?

Matthew
« Last Edit: March 14, 2008, 11:21 PM by Matthew Schenker »
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Offline Don T

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2008, 11:42 PM »
I use a 6" Delta.  It has been a good tool for me.  I've thought about upgrading to a spiral cutter with replaceable tips, but the reviews were not good enough to warrant the cost.  What I would really like is an 8" Powermatic Parrallelgram(dreaming).
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Offline Fred West

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2008, 11:42 PM »
Matthew, I have a Grizzly 6" Jointer and it is a surprisngly good machine. I bought it for $1 plus a new motor. ;D As good as this machine is I would give my right arm for the room to have at least a 10" jointer. My partner and I often build heirloom quality furniture and having to rip and rebuild is really irritating. Unfortunately we both have 6" jointers and no room. I would love to have a parralleogram jointer. Fred
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Offline Corwin

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #3 on: March 14, 2008, 11:52 PM »
Why not use a bigger diameter bit?

Offline Scott W.

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2008, 12:06 AM »
I have a 12 inch Bridgewood, bought it used 12+ years ago. I have no idea when it was built.
I just recently installed Dispoz-A-Blade knives in it and have been very satisfied with them.

I also have a 6 inch Delta that is collecting dust since I got the 12 inch. One of my first machine purchases.
I'm hope to come across a young person with the woodworking passion to give my "starter" shop to some day but as of yet haven't found him or her. I have a radial drill press (Delta), the 6 in. jointer, a craftsman contractor saw and 14" band saw, 1.5 hp dust collector, router etc,etc... It's frustrating really, I sacrificed at the time to acquire these when I started setting up shop & now I can't find anyone locally who would "love" to get started - free of charge.

Sorry I got off the subject...
Here is the Jointer I actually use



Scott W.


PA, USA

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2008, 12:07 AM »
This grizzly at the link below is not a 10", but man what a bang for the buck.  It was 750.00 - now close to 950.00 with shipping. Unless a 10" for 1000.00 comes along I can' t see many jointer's this quality for this price.

Grizzly 8" G0490
« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 12:07 AM by nickao »
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Offline Dan Clermont

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2008, 03:28 AM »
Well, I am a hobbiest (who likes nice tools) and my small shop can't support a long, heavy jointer and I have been considering the HL 850 but in the meantime I use this and have been very happy with it. I've gotten quite good at jointing using hand tools and when I get a bigger shop I'll consider a larger jointer but right now this is my tool of choice.
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Offline Robert Robinson

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2008, 06:28 AM »
Scott W. I would love to get started ;D ;D. Oh well, thought I would try. I have the benchdog router table for my jointin'.
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Offline Matthew Schenker

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2008, 07:52 AM »
Why not use a bigger diameter bit?

Of course, you're supposed to use the widest possible bit for jointing.  I use a 1"-diameter bit sometimes.  However, the maximum length I've been able to find in a 1"-diameter bit is 1 1/2".  I also found a 1 1/4"-diameter bit at MLCS with a 1 1/2" cutting length.  The 1/2"-diameter Freud has a 2 1/2" length, which means I can joint pieces that much wider or thicker.

Even though the rule is to use the widest possible bit, I have not had any problems with the 1/2"-diameter Freud bits.  I usually only joint about 1/64" at a time.  Even when I experimented with a 1/8"-joint on a bit I was about to discard, I found that the 1/2"-diameter bits don't flex.

For me, I love the visibility and precision of jointing on the router table and Incra fence.  I know that having a 10" jointer would open up my possibilities greatly, but I don't have the room for such a machine, and I actually like working with pieces under 6" in width.

I like this setup so much, I was once on a quest to find the longest possible straight bits.  I'd go to woodworking shows and ask those specialty router-bit guys about making a 5" or 6" straight bit.  Of course, they told me "no way."  Oh well, I tried.

Matthew
« Last Edit: March 15, 2008, 07:56 AM by Matthew Schenker »
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Offline Ned

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2008, 10:08 AM »
Matthew--

I can see your point about being able to see the work, and I know the fine tuning you can do with an Incra fence.  I am keeping your endorsement in mind while designing my router table.

But... unlike a jointer's cutter, the router bit is only supported at one end.  It is, however minutely, waving around when it's spinning.  And a 5- or 6-inch long cutter?  Scares me!  A larger diameter cutter?  Again, all that mass supported on one end.  Shapers handle big chunks of spinning metal, but the shaft is much larger than 1/2 inch.

I can see a real use for your setup for edge jointing and taking very small cuts on stock not more than, say, an inch (25mm) thick.  Wider work, or deeper cuts, could quickly put the operator into a dangerous situation.

Ned

Offline Fred West

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2008, 11:47 AM »
Scott W., Not a beginner but I am more than willing to take that 12" jointer off of your hands.  ;) :D ;D I will have to knock down some walls but what the heck it would be worth it.  ;)

Nickao, that 8" Grizzly looks great and I have looked longingly at it but don't even have the room for that one. :'( Fred
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Offline John Langevin

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2008, 01:24 PM »
Matt, one possiblilty to extend your jointing capability would be to use a solid carbide spiral (4) flute "Milling Cutter" that has a female center at the cutting end and then come up with a simple overarm with a small male live center to support it. This would eliminate any tool "whip and safely restrain the cutter, while the four flute spiral design should give an excellent surface finish; the solid carbide would allow many resharpenings since size is not critical to the function. It is something I am considering doing with either a vertical or horizontal router orientation. What do you think?
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Offline Ned

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #12 on: March 15, 2008, 01:39 PM »
...with a small male live center to support it. ...

A quick glance at McMaster shows the live centers rated for only 6,000 rpm, and they typically come with some kind of tapered end for attachment--this wouldn't be easy to deal with without the right reamers ($$$) to make the mating socket.

A long edge-trimming bit with a pilot bearing on the end might work.  The overarm would just have to support the bearing.  The bearing would be smallish for this application, but at least is rated for router speeds.

Ned

Offline bruegf

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #13 on: March 15, 2008, 01:41 PM »
Has anyone purchased one of the Sunhill spiral or helical jointer heads and can anyone give me an idea of the pros/cons of the helical vs the spiral head.

http://www.sunhillmachinery.com/store/index.asp?department=2

I've emailed them and it sounds as if they have a one that would fit my Craftsman 6" jointer (I think the same one Matthew has).   Just wondering if its really worth the money

Fred
Fred

Offline Scott W.

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #14 on: March 15, 2008, 02:26 PM »
Scott W., Not a beginner but I am more than willing to take that 12" jointer off of your hands.  ;) :D ;D .....

Sorry Fred, The 12in isn'r going anywhere (unless I come across a nice 16 in ;)) I was talking about the 6" Delta.

Scott W.
PA, USA

Offline Scott W.

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #15 on: March 15, 2008, 02:36 PM »
Have any of you guys ever seen a vertical type jointer?

35 years ago when I was in school the school shop had a machine with a tall fence, maybe 12 - 14 inches high.
In the center of the fence was a metal disk with a slot cut in the face around the diameter. Small cutters fit in this slot (I don't recall how many but it seems like maybe 8 -12 cutters around the diameter). It took a cut of maybe 1/32 -1/16 if I remember right.

It had a narrow table maybe 6 inches wide that raised up & down to expose the disk.

It's a little hard to describe. 
I have no Idea who made the machine or what the proper name for it is (probably military surplus, most of the other equipment was), and I have never come across another one.

The thing was slick. I would love to get a look at one now.

Scott W.
PA, USA

Offline Ned

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #16 on: March 15, 2008, 02:38 PM »
Scott--

I think what you're remembering is a Rockwell Uniplane.

Don't know anymore than that, but it's a start.

Ned

Offline Scott W.

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #17 on: March 15, 2008, 02:45 PM »
Scott--

I think what you're remembering is a Rockwell Uniplane.

Don't know anymore than that, but it's a start.

Ned


Ned,

That's it! 
Man that thing was handy.

Scott W.
PA, USA

Offline Dovetail65

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #18 on: March 15, 2008, 02:49 PM »
Scott--

I think what you're remembering is a Rockwell Uniplane.

Don't know anymore than that, but it's a start.

Ned


Ned,

That's it! 
Man that thing was handy.

Scott W.


I think this is it:

uniplane
The one who says it can't be done should avoid interrupting the person doing it.

Offline woodshopdemos

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #19 on: March 15, 2008, 03:20 PM »
Mathew,
   I have a long bed jointer, but I still use the router table for edge jointing. I us the 3/4 in CMT bit with helical shaped cutter. I love the way it works. I almost always have 2S2 boards and this setup is all that is needed.
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Offline JJ Wavra

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #20 on: March 15, 2008, 05:08 PM »
I have the steel city 8" industrial jointer which has the parralelgram(sp?) bed.  It also has a long infeed and out feed along with a built in wheel system.  I have to admit it is my first jointer so I have no other means of comparing but I have been extremely pleased.  I really like the bed lengths.

JJ

Offline Fred West

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #21 on: March 15, 2008, 05:17 PM »
Scott W., I may have known what you were speaking about but was hoping you would "slip" up and send me the 12" ;) :D ;D After all a man can dream can't he.  8) Fred
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Offline bonesbr549

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #22 on: March 15, 2008, 08:36 PM »
Well, here is mine. It was my christmas present to my self.  It's the grizzly g609. It is the version with the 4hss knives. The upgrade for the carbide cutters were just outside my budget.  It was $1,875 delivered with the lift gate services.  I had to spend another 40 bucks to rent an engine hoist to get it off the crate and set it down.  I love it. After my 6" delta thats junk, this is nice! I do plan on upgrading to the carbide after these dull. 



Offline Fred West

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #23 on: March 15, 2008, 09:43 PM »
Bones, if that is you in the picture then I wish a slow painful death upon you twice. Once for being so young and the other for having a 12" parrollegram jointer.  ;) :D ;D :o Fred
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Offline bonesbr549

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2008, 10:09 PM »
Bones, if that is you in the picture then I wish a slow painful death upon you twice. Once for being so young and the other for having a 12" parrollegram jointer.  ;) :D ;D :o Fred

I wish to be that age again.  That's my boy. He's 17 6' and got a whole life. Me, I'm 45, what hasn't fallen out is grey and I'm 190 lbs.  But I do have the 12" jointer.  With the money saved on buying that instead of another brand, I could afford the domino & ct33e.  Take care.

Offline John Stevens

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2008, 11:40 PM »
Matthew, I have an 8" jointer with a Shelix head.  Sure, it's great for edge jointing, but that's nothing compared to face jointing.  The really good part is taking heavily figured hardwood and face jointing it with tear out no worse than tiny grains of salt.  Start with 120 grit on the 150/3, no problem!  The only drag is if your planer doesn't have a Shelix head  :o

So the best jointer for Festoolians?  IMO, a jointer-planer combo with a Shelix head.  I'm hoping to save up for the new Jet or Griz plus the Shelix.  Figuring I can get 1/3 the way there by selling my current jointer and lunchbox planer, another 1/3 by doing some side jobs this year, and the other 1/3 from my kid's college savings account...

Regards,

John
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Offline bonesbr549

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2008, 09:56 AM »
Matthew, I have an 8" jointer with a Shelix head.  Sure, it's great for edge jointing, but that's nothing compared to face jointing.  The really good part is taking heavily figured hardwood and face jointing it with tear out no worse than tiny grains of salt.  Start with 120 grit on the 150/3, no problem!  The only drag is if your planer doesn't have a Shelix head  :o

So the best jointer for Festoolians?  IMO, a jointer-planer combo with a Shelix head.  I'm hoping to save up for the new Jet or Griz plus the Shelix.  Figuring I can get 1/3 the way there by selling my current jointer and lunchbox planer, another 1/3 by doing some side jobs this year, and the other 1/3 from my kid's college savings account...

Regards,

John

I looked at the combo.  There were two reasones I did not.  First, I have a Makita 12" planer that has served well over the years so I could not see throwing it out. Second, I liked the longer tables on the parallel jointer. If the tables had been a bit longer I would have made the jump. 


Offline Fred West

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Re: Best Jointer for Festoolians?
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2008, 03:21 PM »
Scott, in that case I only wish small amounts of excrutiating pain but no death as you do still have a 12" jointer.  :D ;D ;) Fred
Domino,TS 75, Trion PS 300, RO 150, ETS 150/5, DTS 400, RS 400, LS 130, RS 2, Deltex 93, CT 33 CT 22, CT Midi & 3 MFT 1080s, OF 1400, C 12, RAS 115, MFK 700, MFT/3 :o)