Author Topic: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws  (Read 2941 times)

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Offline neilc

  • Posts: 2703
Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« on: June 02, 2019, 11:00 PM »
PDF of a comparison test / article from Journal of Light Construction from September of 2018.











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Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1170
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #1 on: June 02, 2019, 11:20 PM »
Understandably, since, like most reviews of this kind, the saw was not used over a longer period of time, the author did not mention anything about smoking motor.

Two important features about the Kapex have not been mentioned: the exemplary dust collection, and the best hold-down clamp of all.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5756
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #2 on: June 03, 2019, 10:23 AM »
it also said (paraphased by me) that the festool was to good of a saw to be used for site work.

>>>Decking, framing, siding, and general contractors
would do well with almost all of
the saws in this test, although the Kapex,
which has so many bells and whistles,
might be overkill for a lot of rough work<<<

That I dont understand.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2019, 10:26 AM by jobsworth »

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #3 on: June 03, 2019, 10:27 AM »
I agree Ron, I see plenty of Kapex’s on site, including mine.

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 815
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #4 on: June 03, 2019, 03:59 PM »
it also said (paraphased by me) that the festool was to good of a saw to be used for site work.

>>>Decking, framing, siding, and general contractors
would do well with almost all of
the saws in this test, although the Kapex,
which has so many bells and whistles,
might be overkill for a lot of rough work<<<

That I dont understand.

I agree with quote. Using a Kapex for framing is overkill. You don't need any level of precision and certainly not what the Kapex can deliver for framing nor decking. Any mitre saw at 1/2 the price is more than sufficient. I believe the point of the quote is use a cheaper saw where you can and save the Kapex for trim work. I'll equate it to driving a Ferrari to the job site when a truck is better suited.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #5 on: June 03, 2019, 05:02 PM »
The other side of the coin is, many one man set ups will have a selection of tools, and many will only have one mitre saw, and if that saw is a Kapex, they will more than likely use it for a range of work. If they bought an extra cheaper saw for first fix or rough work, that’s a bit of false economy?

Offline T. Ernsberger

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Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #6 on: June 03, 2019, 07:33 PM »
The Kapex would be last on my list for quality miter saws.  All my friends that have owned the Kapex have had their motors burn up.  I have used the Kapex a lot and the only benefit I see to it is dust collection.  The hold down clamp is nice but it can be used on other saws,  but I rarely use a hold down clamp.  For me I either use a DeWalt 716 or a Hitach C10FSH Japanese model. 

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #7 on: June 04, 2019, 03:43 AM »
I’ve had a good few mitre saws over many years, and still own a variety of types, brands and different sizes. I haven’t had any real issues with any of them, apart from they all come up short in the dust extraction dept.
They are accurate, reliable and do what is asked of them, so no real complaints from me, I’ve certainly never had motor or smoking issues with any of them though.

Trying to be fair here, in my short time as a Kapex owner/user, I have so far been very impressed, which I expected to be with a premium tool at premium price.
I used to think they were just over priced equivalents of other brands but, I now look at them differently.

My Kapex is used for a variety of work but, if I were doing some real precise and detailed work, the Kapex would be the saw I would prefer to be using. I have some nice Makita saws that have handled anything I’ve used them for, including some real precision work but, I just feel the Kapex takes things further, in a comfortable way.

I love the bevel adjustment, small footprint, twin lasers, and the table angle detents, and superb lock mechanism. Very smooth cuts and the best dust collection I’ve experienced with any mitre saw.
I have managed an extremely long time without a Kapex but, so pleased I now own one.
The burn out issues were/are a sore subject, especially for the unfortunate owners of these saws, rumour has it the latest saws are now sorted, here’s hoping. I think Festool would have done well to recognise the issue, and give reassurance instead of putting the shutters down. I love the majority of the Festool range and have invested in a fair bit of it, so as a customer, confidence in a brand is important to me. Denial or mystery, doesn’t instill confidence though.
« Last Edit: June 04, 2019, 03:46 AM by Jiggy Joiner »

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 873
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #8 on: June 04, 2019, 06:42 AM »
I’ve had a good few mitre saws over many years, and still own a variety of types, brands and different sizes. I haven’t had any real issues with any of them, apart from they all come up short in the dust extraction dept.
They are accurate, reliable and do what is asked of them, so no real complaints from me, I’ve certainly never had motor or smoking issues with any of them though.

Trying to be fair here, in my short time as a Kapex owner/user, I have so far been very impressed, which I expected to be with a premium tool at premium price.
I used to think they were just over priced equivalents of other brands but, I now look at them differently.

My Kapex is used for a variety of work but, if I were doing some real precise and detailed work, the Kapex would be the saw I would prefer to be using. I have some nice Makita saws that have handled anything I’ve used them for, including some real precision work but, I just feel the Kapex takes things further, in a comfortable way.

I love the bevel adjustment, small footprint, twin lasers, and the table angle detents, and superb lock mechanism. Very smooth cuts and the best dust collection I’ve experienced with any mitre saw.
I have managed an extremely long time without a Kapex but, so pleased I now own one.
The burn out issues were/are a sore subject, especially for the unfortunate owners of these saws, rumour has it the latest saws are now sorted, here’s hoping. I think Festool would have done well to recognise the issue, and give reassurance instead of putting the shutters down. I love the majority of the Festool range and have invested in a fair bit of it, so as a customer, confidence in a brand is important to me. Denial or mystery, doesn’t instill confidence though.

The one benefit that you have is that you are in the U.k.  It seems the majority of Kapex issues are in the states.  The Kapex motor issue and the TS55 being very underpowered has made me lose trust in the brand.

I work with expensive millwork and trim and never had issues with my Hitachi or DeWalt saws.  I did have to take time to tune them.  If Festool puts a more powerful and less problematic motor in the Kapex I would buy one for the dust collection but not until then.  Festool has the brushless technology. 

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2019, 08:54 AM »
@T. Ernsberger Believe me, we have had Kapex 120 issues over here in both 240 volt and 110 volt.
The newer latest Kapex has apparently been built to eliminate former issues? Only time will tell I guess.

I totally agree about the TS55, mine’s quite old but, looks brand new as it hasn’t seen much action. I was a bit underwhelmed with it in honesty, and bought a Mafell MT55 to cheer myself up but, have since bought a cordless bluetooth Makita 6001 which is my favourite.
Plenty of power and very smooth.
I’d like to see a comparison between the Festool, Mafell and Makita cordless plunge saws. They all give good power but, I don’t know which would come out on top?

Offline DynaGlide

  • Posts: 463
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2019, 09:07 AM »
Another DeWALT fan here. My first (and only) miter saw is the DeWALT DWS782. It's the same saw as the DWS780 but without an 'official' way to add the XPS light. I added it early on and it's just a nice saw. I used the Kapex quite a bit in the training class and even for precision tasks I think the DeWALT can handle anything you throw at it just as well. The XPS light wins out over the lasers in my book. The dust shroud on the newer model DeWALT's works surprisingly well hooked up to the CT vac. Not having the Kapex and my saw side by side it'd be hard to compare dust control but I can't imagine the Kapex being double the price better.

With the dust collection, if you're going for splinter free cuts that means a zero clearance fence which negates dust collection anyway.

Anywho. .for anyone in the market take a hard look at the other offerings.
@matts.garage

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 873
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #11 on: June 04, 2019, 08:55 PM »
@T. Ernsberger Believe me, we have had Kapex 120 issues over here in both 240 volt and 110 volt.
The newer latest Kapex has apparently been built to eliminate former issues? Only time will tell I guess.

I totally agree about the TS55, mine’s quite old but, looks brand new as it hasn’t seen much action. I was a bit underwhelmed with it in honesty, and bought a Mafell MT55 to cheer myself up but, have since bought a cordless bluetooth Makita 6001 which is my favourite.
Plenty of power and very smooth.
I’d like to see a comparison between the Festool, Mafell and Makita cordless plunge saws. They all give good power but, I don’t know which would come out on top?

I did a comparison of the TS55 and the MT55 on Instagram,   The MT55 came out on top. 

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6275
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #12 on: June 04, 2019, 09:51 PM »
I did a comparison of the TS55 and the MT55 on Instagram,   The MT55 came out on top.

I’m interested in that, do you have a link?

I’ve been thinking about putting the TS 55 down the road as I’ve not used it since I purchased the TSC 55 over 3 years ago.

Offline jobsworth

  • Posts: 5756
  • Festool Baby.....
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #13 on: June 04, 2019, 09:57 PM »
All I can say is the TS55 has done everything I wanted it to do. Cut everything from hickory to pine no problems.

Had my Kapex for about 8 yrs or so never had a problem though it’s shop bound

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 700
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2019, 03:13 AM »
@T. Ernsberger Believe me, we have had Kapex 120 issues over here in both 240 volt and 110 volt.
The newer latest Kapex has apparently been built to eliminate former issues? Only time will tell I guess.

I totally agree about the TS55, mine’s quite old but, looks brand new as it hasn’t seen much action. I was a bit underwhelmed with it in honesty, and bought a Mafell MT55 to cheer myself up but, have since bought a cordless bluetooth Makita 6001 which is my favourite.
Plenty of power and very smooth.
I’d like to see a comparison between the Festool, Mafell and Makita cordless plunge saws. They all give good power but, I don’t know which would come out on top?

I did a comparison of the TS55 and the MT55 on Instagram,   The MT55 came out on top.

Yes, I have a TS55, a Mafell MT55 and also a Makita 6001. I've mentioned before, I bought the TS55 and not long after, I got to try out the MT55. The MT55 in my opinion is a better saw, and by a fair margin.
The MT55 became my main plunge saw, and the TS55 became the back up saw. All ok but, eventually for site work we decided to try and go completely cordless, which we now are, and have been for a while, apart from a table saw. We have a good selection of 18 volt and 36 volt tools.
When it came to buying a cordless plunge saw, I was set on the Mafell but, we have a lot of Makita batteries, and no Mafell. So we went with the Makita.
As I've said in other threads, the Mafell in corded, and cordless (in my opinion) is the best designed plunge saw out there but, the Makita is my personal favourite. I don't know if it's because it's cordless, or because it feels smooth and powerful? It just works for me, and anybody that uses it.
It's bluetooth and we use it with a Makita 36 volt bluetooth extractor. A great combo, the saw has good battery life, nice smooth cutting, even with hardwoods. It was a great purchase for us.

So, I already know how the TS55 and MT55 compare, and comparing the Makita to them doesn't work as it's cordless.
I know the Festool TSC55 and the Mafell MT 55 18 M bl, and the Makita 6001 all have respectable power and are highly rated, I would just love a comparison with the cordless. Bearing in mind, The Mafell is 18 volt, the Festool is multi volt and the Makita is 36 volt.

Btw, this isn't a put down of the TS55, I know lots of happy owners who love theirs, and I have employees that own them without complaint. I just think a little more power wouldn't hurt.

As I say though, my interest nowadays when on site, or anything other than workshop use, is cordless. I love it, and believe it's definitely the way forward.

Offline T. Ernsberger

  • Posts: 873
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2019, 09:33 AM »
I did a comparison of the TS55 and the MT55 on Instagram,   The MT55 came out on top.

I’m interested in that, do you have a link?

I’ve been thinking about putting the TS 55 down the road as I’ve not used it since I purchased the TSC 55 over 3 years ago.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd5ZmqOhXUW/?igshid=15j0ycl28nzn4

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1170
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2019, 11:28 AM »

Had my Kapex for about 8 yrs or so never had a problem though it’s shop bound
In the last session this week, I made over 150 cuts with the Kapex on softwood continually. I made an effort to "strain" the saw through many many close-to non-stop cuts. No smoke, no smell, no nothing ( [wink]).

How often do I make over 100 cuts in one single cutting session? Rarely. So I am relatively satisfied that my saw (over 4 years old) should not smoke or anything in future normal use.

By the way, if it matters: The saw and shop vac were plugged into a 30amp auto switch (15+15), which in turn ran on a 35 amp circuit (20+15), supplying more than enough current to the tools combined. (I definitely would not run a Kapex on any CT if I still have a CT.)
« Last Edit: June 05, 2019, 11:37 AM by ChuckM »

Offline JimH2

  • Posts: 815
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2019, 02:30 PM »
The supposed current issue is pure speculation. The saw is designed for the US market and it's electrical system. Mine, which failed after 8 years of non-commercial usage was always plugged into a 20-amp circuit, which was in effect dedicated since nothing else was ever used at the same time on that circuit. The issue is the armature and it will fail at some point. I too had thought I was safe front just based on how long I had it. You will know when it goes. I was on my third cut when the poof of smoke appeared (and smell). The 1st two cuts were through poplar and were quick and clean. The 3rd cut did not go as well.

Offline ChuckM

  • Posts: 1170
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2019, 02:39 PM »
Indeed, since Festool has remained tight-lipped about the motor issue, the precaution I said of the current may or may not do anything about the motor problems that other users have reported.

Another speculation is that "improved" parts are now used to fix the Kapex. If that is true, then none of us should worry about the motor issue, because if the motor goes south, it just needs a new part which could solve the issue for good. Short-term pain, long-term gain! [tongue]

Offline online421

  • Posts: 125
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2019, 06:30 PM »
I had a few mitre saw before, I was never happy with any of them, until I bought my first Omga. I was so happy with the Omga that I later upgraded to an Omga twin mitre saw that is pneumatically activated.

the dust port on the Omga is 75mm/3 inch. probably biggest on the market?

Griggio Unica400
Felder AD951
Masterwood OMB1V
SCM 5 RCS1100
Casadei FV110
Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500
Ceccato CDX 12
Holytek DC006
Festool DF700XL, LEX3, OF1010, CT36
JLT 190BM2, JLT 79K10
Danfoss VLT 2880
Sicar TOP6

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1226
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2019, 07:28 PM »
Omga TR2A - Is this what you're talking about?

-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline Christopher Fitch

  • Posts: 80
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2019, 10:44 PM »
You hammered the Mafell and it took it...

I did a comparison of the TS55 and the MT55 on Instagram,   The MT55 came out on top.

I’m interested in that, do you have a link?

I’ve been thinking about putting the TS 55 down the road as I’ve not used it since I purchased the TSC 55 over 3 years ago.

https://www.instagram.com/p/Bd5ZmqOhXUW/?igshid=15j0ycl28nzn4

Offline online421

  • Posts: 125
Re: Festool vs Competitive Miter Saws
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2019, 11:19 PM »
Omga TR2A - Is this what you're talking about?



here is mine

I setup the machine slow as it was the first few cuts.



Griggio Unica400
Felder AD951
Masterwood OMB1V
SCM 5 RCS1100
Casadei FV110
Chicago Pneumatics CPRS10500
Ceccato CDX 12
Holytek DC006
Festool DF700XL, LEX3, OF1010, CT36
JLT 190BM2, JLT 79K10
Danfoss VLT 2880
Sicar TOP6