Author Topic: Garage shop air filtration recommendations  (Read 22188 times)

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Offline juststartingout

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Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« on: May 14, 2014, 02:45 PM »
Hi all,

As my shop begins to get more tools ( I just recently purchased a Bosch 4100 contractors table saw, and I'm going to purchase the carvex any day now) and I start to build more projects I'm Noticing more dust in my garage/workspace.  I have two little ones(6 mos and 2.5yrs old) and I'm growing concerned about the amount of dust in the garage.  I usually work with my garage door at least slightly open but usually the wind blows into the house so it blows a lot of the dust back as opposed to out.  I am going to enhance the dust collection on the bosch, but I'm also going to be building a router table and am in the market for a miter saw.  I am leaning towards the kapex or a Bosch for the miter saw as they are the best reviewed and also the best as it comes to dust collection.

Because of this situation I'm looking for suggestions for a air purifier/cleaner to capture the small stuff that affects lungs especially that of my kids.  My garage space is slightly bigger than a one car stall garage.  Right now I'm leaning towards a Rikon 3 speed air filter 400 CFM, but I wanted to get the groups thoughts as most of us festool enthusiasts love tools but hate dust!

Thanks,

Oscar
MFT3, TS55, CT 26, OF1400, RO90, RO150, Carvex PS 420 EBQ, Domino 500, and dreaming of a Kapex.

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Offline wow

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #1 on: May 14, 2014, 04:55 PM »
I will leave brands out of the conversation, as I think that they are too subjective.

What you want is good air exchange and filtration. Assuming your shop is - say - 14' x 20' x 9' tall you have 2520 cubic feet of air. Substitute your own measurements to figure out your cubic footage.

Now, using that number look for a unit that can exchange the air several times per hour. Look for 8-10 times per hour as a target. Using my dimensions above the Rikon you mentioned would exchange the air 8.9 times every hour based on their stated example of 3200 cu ft = 7 exchanges.

Other factors to consider are how fast the filters fill up, how fine a particle you're filtering for, and NOISE. Every filter unit I've ever been around is loud enough that I would hesitate to turn it on all the time, which is a major problem. You obviously don't benefit from the filter unit if you don't use it. But if the noise bothers you or your little ones, I GUARANTEE that you won't use it like you should.

This is another case where I'd visit the store to see how the unit sounds. Take your bride along and have her stand near one end of the filter while you stand a few feet away from the other. Try to carry on a conversation. Can she understand you? Can you understand her? Do you have to raise you voices? Would she have concerns about the kid's hearing if they were to spend time in the shop with you while the filter is on?

Not trying to be a downer here - just trying to help you make an informed decision. I think that a truly 'quiet' air filter is still a 'Holy Grail' for the average wood shop. I know I'm still looking...
Trying to be one of the most helpful members on the FOG.

Offline RKA

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #2 on: May 14, 2014, 05:35 PM »
I asked a similar question about a month back and it became clear to me that I need to take multiple steps to deal with the dust, no single thing was going to be sufficient.  Now, I'm particularly sensitive to the stuff, but with the little ones I think you have to be equally careful if they are in proximity to the workspace frequently.  Take what applies to you.
1. collect at the source, either through a festool dust extractor or equivalent or a dust collection system for the larger machines.
2. air filtration to cleanse the small airborne stuff
3. mask when you're working because the above are not sufficient when you're standing over the tool/machine
4. clean every horizontal surface periodically.  everything that collects can and will get airborne once disrupted.  hepa vacs are great since you know the stuff collected is not getting redistributed into the room.

Regarding the noise issue (for the air filtration unit), my advice would be get the largest unit you can practically accomodate.  That allows you to run the unit at a lower (or lowest) speed, which is quite tolerable.  In addition the velocity of the air escaping the unit is less, so the potential to stir up the standing dust in the room is less as well.
-Raj

Offline Jon Hilgenberg

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #3 on: May 14, 2014, 07:59 PM »
This top pic is timely because I'm doing a large closet job in a very large house.  Need to set up my tools inside the closet to work, and want to use something to catch dust.  Hadn't figured on the noise levels.

Will be watching this thread...

Jon
The more Festools I buy, the more money I earn.  The more money I earn, the more Festools I buy.  The more...
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Offline RKA

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-Raj

Offline Jon Hilgenberg

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2014, 08:22 PM »
Jon, someone had previously suggested one of these for their on site work:
http://www.amazon.com/Shop-Vac-1030000-Cleaner-Filtration-System/dp/B00004T181/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1400113028&sr=8-8&keywords=Air+filtration+portable

Was just looking at this!  Looks kinda cheap though.

Spend another 150 or so and get something I can mount in my garage?
The more Festools I buy, the more money I earn.  The more money I earn, the more Festools I buy.  The more...
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Offline RL

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2014, 09:00 PM »
I've plugged my air purifier so many times over the years on the FOG because it's so good and I want other FOGgers to benefit. It's a blueair 450E. I was using a Blueair 601 for years but it's too big for my current workshop so I can save on filters by moving to a smaller machine. This is a portable HEPA rated purifier that covers around 350 square feet with 5 air changes per hour. It deals with VOCs and dust and is virtually silent. I never turn it off and it has an automatic mode where it increase the fan if it detects more dust or odours in the air.

Incidentally, it rarely moves off the lowest fan speed when I am using Festools, but quickly increases if I use my planer or other brand tool!

Offline fritter63

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2014, 09:52 PM »
Look up the FWW article on this from like 10 years ago.

They're conclusion on best performer? $10 walmart box fan in a homemade frame to hold furnace filters on both sides....

Or you can buy my Delta from me. .....

Offline NuggyBuggy

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2014, 10:16 PM »
I picked up a  used Abatement Technologies Predator 600 air scrubber on Kijiji (like Craigslist) for about the price of one of the typical air filtration units available at woodworking stores.

I have a small space, but I monitor particulates with a Dylos, and it takes fine particulate counts down FAST,even though it is usually not optimally located.  The only problem with it is the dimensions don't lend themselves well to easy mounting on wall or ceiling. I usually leave it on the floor.
“I am on a drug. It’s called Charlie Sheen.”

Offline wow

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2014, 02:40 AM »
I picked up a  used Abatement Technologies Predator 600 air scrubber on Kijiji (like Craigslist) for about the price of one of the typical air filtration units available at woodworking stores.

I have a small space, but I monitor particulates with a Dylos, and it takes fine particulate counts down FAST,even though it is usually not optimally located.  The only problem with it is the dimensions don't lend themselves well to easy mounting on wall or ceiling. I usually leave it on the floor.

NuggyBuggy, that looks like a great solution for field use!

They don't state anywhere how loud it is, but I suspect it's got a fairly high noise level since it's so compact. They push a fair amount of air through a 10" hole.
Trying to be one of the most helpful members on the FOG.

Offline leakyroof

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2014, 10:03 AM »
Plus 1 on being able to actually listen to different units in a store for noise and features.
 Next, see how the filters remove for cleaning or replacement.  Does that affect your decision, or do you have enough room around where you would mount a Filtration Unit that how the filters slide out from a side, or straight-in-back removal won't affect you.
  Remotes- This one is sneaky, are new or replacement units available, and how expensive are they. Remotes for anything can go bad, and once you're out of warranty, it's on you for the replacement cost.
 Circuit Board inside the unit. watch out for Voltage surges . I lost the circuit board on my JDS unit, I ,and JDS, suspected a voltage surge. They replaced it under warranty, at no cost, and I added a surge proctector to the unit power cord to prevent this from happening again.
  Noise level, none of the speeds on my JDS bother me, I do tend to run it at the lowest speed since that's all I generally need.  Getting a Dylos Dust/particulate meter isn't a bad idea either so you can establish a base line of dust / dirty air level while working, versus when you're not using the shop/garage.
 Plus, you can measure how clean or dirty your house vacuum is with the Dylos, as many people tend to vacuum often inside their closed off house, and just quietly spew very small micron dust everywhere from a non-HEPA vacuum.
  We own Miele Vacuums for the house, and Festool CT's for working.
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Offline wow

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2014, 11:59 AM »
Researching 'Dylos' led me to an interesting article:

Measuring dust with a Dylos air quality monitor

Warning: a bit of a long read,
Trying to be one of the most helpful members on the FOG.

Offline NuggyBuggy

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2014, 01:05 PM »
NuggyBuggy, that looks like a great solution for field use!

They don't state anywhere how loud it is, but I suspect it's got a fairly high noise level since it's so compact. They push a fair amount of air through a 10" hole.
Wow, they are designed for field use - like renovation, disaster cleanup, etc.

They're actually not that noisy - I leave mine on all the time when on the shop.  Subjectively, I'd say it's quieter than a CT by far.  If I get the energy I might try to do a comparative video or recording.
“I am on a drug. It’s called Charlie Sheen.”

Offline Stephan in BC

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2014, 12:15 AM »
I made my own out of a 12" furnace booster fan, a on-off switch with a timer and three furnace filters, coarse medium and fine stacked together. It keeps the air in my 1100 square foot cabinet shop clean.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2014, 03:26 AM »
Hi Oscar

I used to have a large Jet overhead filter (with remote, run on and so on) and it worked very well although I still found dust on the shiny tops of pillar drills and on the beds of planers when I started work the following day.

Just over 3 years ago I got rid of almost all of my heavier machines and started the Festool route. As soon as I got the Kapex and CT26 I noticed a huge difference. By the time I had my Domino and TS55 I had got rid of the Jet filter. My workshop is cleaner now than it has ever been. I am very fussy because I have a lot of camera and sound equipment permanently set up in the workshop and cameras hate dust.

I would be tempted to use the money that you might spend on a filter system to contribute to the extra cost of a Kapex. If you have not got a CT already then you should get one. It may help if you take a look at my workshop dust study video. I used some quite expensive gear borrowed from professional specialists here in the UK to measure dust in all sorts of situations. With the CT26 the dust levels for the Kapex, RO90, RO150, Domino, TS55 and OF2200 were all well below the level for all day exposure and in most cases lower than you get when doing the vacuuming in the house!

The worst figures were produced when hand sanding. I now have the Mirka hand sanding block with a hose connected to the CT26 and I use Abranet abrasive supplied, here in the UK, by the Woodworkers Workshop.

Here is the dust study video:



Peter

Offline GreenGA

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2014, 11:21 PM »
I picked this up on sale back in December; recommended I think by a fogger. I like it, it's quiet and performs well.

JET 708620B AFS-1000B 550/702/1044 CFM 3-Speed Air Filtration System with Remote and Electrostatic Pre-Filter
http://amzn.com/B00004R9LO
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Offline copcarcollector

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2014, 11:43 PM »
I picked this up on sale back in December; recommended I think by a fogger. I like it, it's quiet and performs well.

JET 708620B AFS-1000B 550/702/1044 CFM 3-Speed Air Filtration System with Remote and Electrostatic Pre-Filter
http://amzn.com/B00004R9LO

The Jet is a popular one. I have yet to install mine but a friend has one and uses it daily. I would wager Jet and Powermatic will be on sale again for Fathers Day, a good time to pick one up.

Offline jobsworth

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2014, 02:26 AM »
I used the jet in my USA shop.  Even though festool does eliminate a lot of dust and the filter does help to.

It wont completely eliminate the dust. But it sure helps reducing it.

Offline SittingElf

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #18 on: May 17, 2014, 03:04 AM »
+1 on the JDS units!

They are highly rated, efficient, and not loud at all. (Really more like white noise). Tool-free filter changes and one filter that is reusable within the system.  For really heavy, caustic dust, a charcoal filter is also available. Three speeds, and timer functions all from a pocket remote controller.

The smallest they make would be just perfect for your garage workshop.  Check out their specs:

JDS Air Filtration Systems

Cheers,

Frank

« Last Edit: May 17, 2014, 03:07 AM by SittingElf »
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Offline rrmccabe

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #19 on: May 17, 2014, 09:04 PM »
Just wanted to say I would be hard pressed to recommend spending the money on the Powermatic if anyone is looking for an air filter.  I bought a PM1200 a couple months ago. Arrived with trim stuck in the wrong spot. I assume it came undone during shipping and re-stuck lower down on the side.  Also where the fan motor attaches to the front had lose bolts and one stripped. Plastic end pieces that hold filter and air diffuser don't attach well.

After 4 weeks it picked up a buzz when off.  Turned out to be a bad electronics board.

 Service was outstanding
and they were good about replacing what was needed.

Unit is built in China and not your fathers PowerMatic table saw..

If I was going to do it over again I would save some cash and buy a Jet.  Same company as Powermatic anyway.
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Offline juststartingout

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2014, 01:27 AM »
Thanks for all the replies folks!
MFT3, TS55, CT 26, OF1400, RO90, RO150, Carvex PS 420 EBQ, Domino 500, and dreaming of a Kapex.

Offline Birdhunter

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2014, 10:53 AM »
I rely on dust collection at the point of origin more than trying to clear it out of the air.

All my Festool products excel in dust collection when attached to a really good vac.

My large machines are all hooked to two 2HP cyclone dust collectors.

If I were working in a garage, I'd find a way to put the cyclone units outside the garage, but shielded from the weather. I'd also install a strong exhaust fan to pull contaminated air out of the garage.

Even with all the dust collection, I wear a mask when working with some woods because of their reputation as causing serious health problems.
Birdhunter

Offline Jon Hilgenberg

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #22 on: July 22, 2014, 04:15 PM »
Anyone have the shop fox version?
The more Festools I buy, the more money I earn.  The more money I earn, the more Festools I buy.  The more...
TS 55, TS 75, Domino, CT22, OF 2000, C12, CXS, RAS, Trion, Fogtainers!

Offline Hunter

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #23 on: July 22, 2014, 10:14 PM »
It is well reviewed but I went with the comparable JET because it used standard filter sizes which meant that I could get replacements more easily and upgrade to higher quality filters if I decided to later...
TS-55R, D-500, OF-1400, LR-32, CSX, MFT/3, CT-36, 3000 rail

Offline gary in texas

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #24 on: July 22, 2014, 11:36 PM »
I have two of those listed above, the Jet and JDS (Air-TechHP) with them set up to circulate the air.  I've had the Jet going on 10 years, and recently the board on it malfunctioned and as a result, only has low speed, which is still plenty.  The Jet, to me, is a slight bit quiter than the JDS at all three speeds.  I don't think it makes much difference which brand you buy, as long as you have something to help clean the air in your workshop.

Offline gstuartw

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2014, 11:41 AM »
I was all set to go with a air cleaner but after reading discussions on several sites decided to go collecting at the source. Though I'm spending a lot more money I believe I'm doing what's right for my lungs. This was important enough of a decision that I used the money intended for a mini-split hvac system for the dust collection.

I'm about to start installing my equipment in my nearly completed shop and first install is a Clearvue 1800 cyclone dust collector. 5 hp motor spinning a 16" impeller to pull through 6" ducts all the way to each stationary machine where it will reduce to 4". For hand held (Festool) and Kapex I'll be using my CT36. I'll have the option of venting directly outdoors or into a closet contained set of filters.

Offline grbmds

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #26 on: August 01, 2014, 01:24 PM »
Dust collection at the source is definitely a very significant part of dust collection. I would suggest that you consider, in the the future, even a lower priced air cleaner to hang from the ceiling or, as others have suggested, even a fan with a good filter bag secured. There is still dust which escapes when using a dust collector. Unfortunately, it sometimes is the finest dust which escapes and is unnoticed. That is the dust which does the most harm. In my workshop I collect at the source with an older cyclone collector for my planer and jointer (which produce larger chips) and a Festool or Fein vac (with HEPA filters) for smaller tools like the router, sander, Domino, and I have a ceiling mounted air cleaner on a timed switch which I run during and after the period I'm in the shop working. I usually even wear a dust mask of some sort, especially for sanding (but other things also). I know that all sounds like overkill, but the dust you can't see is the dust that causes the most harm. I feel it's important to collect all of it that I can and, using what I've described, I don't find much dust anywhere in the shop after working.
Randy

Offline Hunter

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #27 on: August 01, 2014, 03:02 PM »
Everything I've read leads me to agree.  I have good DC (cyclonic and filtered), but I also have an air cleaner and wear a mask when making dust and/or spray.  I've personally known and also read about too many people not able to enjoy the later parts of their life due to dust (rock, wood, dirt, mining, whatever) exposure not to.

Even with good DC and good practices you will walk into a shop and "smell that nice wood smell".  It took a bit but I've come around to realize that nice smell is really the sign of a problem, if you can smell it then you are breathing in the particles.  Run a good air cleaner for a couple hours and the air smells and "feels" lighter and cleaner... and that's a good thing.  Mark Spagnolo (Wood Whisperer) did a good show on DC talking about just this, and Bill Pentz pretty much wrote the book on it (http://billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/).

Good luck,
  Hunter
TS-55R, D-500, OF-1400, LR-32, CSX, MFT/3, CT-36, 3000 rail

Offline jacko9

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #28 on: August 01, 2014, 03:08 PM »
I rely on dust collection at the point of origin more than trying to clear it out of the air.

All my Festool products excel in dust collection when attached to a really good vac.

My large machines are all hooked to two 2HP cyclone dust collectors.

If I were working in a garage, I'd find a way to put the cyclone units outside the garage, but shielded from the weather. I'd also install a strong exhaust fan to pull contaminated air out of the garage.

Even with all the dust collection, I wear a mask when working with some woods because of their reputation as causing serious health problems.

+1

I agree with collecting the dust at the point of origin as the most efficient solution.

Jack

Offline Jon Hilgenberg

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Re: Garage shop air filtration recommendations
« Reply #29 on: August 11, 2014, 04:04 PM »
Well, I broke down and got the Shop Fox one because of its size, it is small enough to now take up a permanent spot in my backseat.  I'm doing a large closet install (in a small room!) so I'll try to provide some feedback as to how it works.

Like using festool, this raised some eyebrows on site, and the homeowners really appreciated me running it.

Jon
« Last Edit: August 11, 2014, 05:04 PM by Jon Hilgenberg »
The more Festools I buy, the more money I earn.  The more money I earn, the more Festools I buy.  The more...
TS 55, TS 75, Domino, CT22, OF 2000, C12, CXS, RAS, Trion, Fogtainers!