Author Topic: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!  (Read 13157 times)

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Offline blaszcsj

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Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #90 on: February 24, 2019, 10:09 PM »
@mattbyington your cutter is way closer than 1-2mm. You need to rotate the head such that the leading edge of the insert is just touching the ruler. Not flat as you have shown. Try checking again before adjusting.

This is what I mean:

It seems it's already really close, but moving the ruler maybe 1-2 mm.

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Offline mattbyington

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Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #91 on: February 24, 2019, 10:24 PM »
@blaszcsj  got it thank you sir!! Will do!

Biggest issue right now is I don’t know how to adjust the outfeed table height. So I can’t adjust.

The instructions aren’t super clear. If anyone has any info or link I would be forever grateful!

I’m searching online but plan to call Felder technical support tomorrow!

Matt

Offline egmiii

  • Posts: 138
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #92 on: February 24, 2019, 11:27 PM »
Turning the cutter should pull the ruler 2-3mm. Your machine looks to be calibrated correctly from the factory. Attached photo is from the Felder manual for my AD941.

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Offline mattbyington

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Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #93 on: February 24, 2019, 11:30 PM »
@egmiii thanks!! I wonder why I have snipe then. Maybe Just my technique ?

Matt

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 828
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #94 on: February 25, 2019, 07:03 AM »
@egmiii thanks!! I wonder why I have snipe then. Maybe Just my technique ?

Matt

First check to see if your infeed and outfeed tables are coplanar and not twisted. Seems to be a common complaint. If not you have found your problem. I'm not familiar with the setup procedure on the new style A3-31, when I had mine it was back in 2008 and I'm currently running an AD951 with a helical head from Hermance. Call Felder and they will give you the setup procedure. You also might consider joining the original FOG, more combined knowledge/info there than on these other forums.

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 334
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #95 on: February 25, 2019, 11:40 AM »
Thanks @kcufstoidi !

I ordered one of those "dial indicators" on Amazon - I've seen on Youtube they use those with a piece of wood to measure the height of the tables relative to both ends of the cutter head to measure co-planer.

So, will do that! And hopefully figure it out!

Matt

Offline blaszcsj

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Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #96 on: February 25, 2019, 12:45 PM »
@mattbyington If you are going to check coplanarity at zero position, first you need to establish flatness of each table. This will establish if there any excessive twist or cupping. you can do this by using a reference straight edge (I have a 24" veritas and 48" peach tree straight edges). Check straight down the long axis of the bed in the front, middle, and back. Use feeler stock to determine any gaps. Then do the same across the table in the short direction, then finally again in an "X". This can then be repeated on the table/bed.

After you understand the tables you can then use the indicator or the straight edges to determine if they are co planer by checking the relationship between tables. With the tables at zero, you can extend the straight edge across the cutter and check to see if there is skew between tables: front, middle, back. Then check the pitch of tables by extending the straight edge further over the second table and you can do the same check to determine if the tables have any rise or fall in relation to each other.

Does that make sense?

Thanks @kcufstoidi !

I ordered one of those "dial indicators" on Amazon - I've seen on Youtube they use those with a piece of wood to measure the height of the tables relative to both ends of the cutter head to measure co-planer.

So, will do that! And hopefully figure it out!

Matt
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Offline egmiii

  • Posts: 138
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #97 on: February 25, 2019, 02:00 PM »
Thanks @kcufstoidi !

I ordered one of those "dial indicators" on Amazon - I've seen on Youtube they use those with a piece of wood to measure the height of the tables relative to both ends of the cutter head to measure co-planer.

So, will do that! And hopefully figure it out!

Matt

Not sure which dial indicator you purchased, but the Oneway Multi Gauge is the right tool for the job. It’s not terribly expensive and you will find other uses for it as your tool collection grows.

Offline YOGO100

  • Posts: 20
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #98 on: February 25, 2019, 02:39 PM »
I don't know if you have already seen this, but there is a thread on sawmillcreek where someone posted instructions (with pictures) on how to do some of the table adjustments (https://sawmillcreek.org/showthread.php?198789-Hammer-A3-31-Hinge-side-adjustment). Also, Rob Porcaro (rpwoodwork.com) has a couple of posts on his blog about setting up a hammer jointer/planer. I have had an A3-31 for a couple of years, and have had to adjust the jointer table a couple of times (more than I expected to be honest). If I were you, however, I would use the machine for a while before trying too many adjustments to the tables. If you have never used a jointer before, moreover, I would suggest to find a local woodworking school (community college perhaps) to get a bit of instruction, as technique may certainly resolve some issues.

Offline deepcreek

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Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #99 on: February 25, 2019, 05:28 PM »
Not sure which dial indicator you purchased, but the Oneway Multi Gauge is the right tool for the job. It’s not terribly expensive and you will find other uses for it as your tool collection grows.

Ditto.  Excellent tool and very handy in the shop.

There's a used one for sale listed at Sawmill Creek and WoodNet.
Joe Adams
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Houston, Texas

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Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 334
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #100 on: February 26, 2019, 10:29 AM »
@blaszcsj yes totally makes sense, thank you! That's what I was planning to do. I am hoping they are already flat and pretty co-planer. I think Felder checks them pretty carefully before shipping them out.

@egmiii thanks! I just found a highly rated one on Amazon. It was $50 I think. My thought is it doesn't matter too much how precise it is as long as it's accurate - meaning if it is a few thousands off, as long as it is a constant amount off I don't care what the actual number is I just care about the tables in relation to one another, and to the cutter head if that makes sense.

@YOGO100 yes I did! Thanks! But I couldn't view the pictures as I wasn't a forum member or something (that's a little silly right?). I'll go sign up and read it again.

@deepcreek thanks!

I jointed some cherry last night - looks awesome!

I found if I reduce my pressure downwards on the outfeed, I got less / almost zero snipe. So it very well could be my technique. We will see.

I have a call with Felder today and going to ask them about how and why they ship the outfield table lower than the cutter head.

Thanks all for such awesome help!

Hey PS - I ordered a custom Oneida air metal 120mm to 4" reducer, that just arrived yesterday - but on Saturday ended up going (on someone's suggestion in this forum!) to Rockler to get the schedule 40 PVC.

Anyone want the metal reducer? It looks like it's made pretty well.

Happy to ship it out for free (well you pay shipping but no cost on top of that) if it'd be useful to you.

I also have a Felder reducer coming today as well - we'll see if I use that / need that. If not you guys can have it too.

Matt

Offline egmiii

  • Posts: 138
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #101 on: February 26, 2019, 11:17 AM »
If you don’t have a need for the Felder and Oneida reducers, I’ll gladly pay the shipping to get them.

I’m not exactly sure on why the outfeed table is set below the cutterhead, but that is the intended design across machines.

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 334
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #102 on: February 26, 2019, 11:40 AM »
@egmiii you got it - PM me your shipping address and I can get it mailed out - might not be until this weekend but I'll try to do it this week.

On the sawmill creek thread they said so that if you join boards together that are long, there's a slight gap in the middle and when you apply clamping pressure, it closes that gap and also puts pressure on the ends (picture a dining room table top glue up).

Which actually makes sense. So maybe I won't fiddle with it and trust our Austrian friends did the right thing :)

Sometimes you gotta just ENJOY a new piece of equipment instead of finding something wrong with it (me talking to myself!)

Matt

Offline RobBob

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Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #103 on: February 26, 2019, 11:59 AM »
On the sawmill creek thread they said so that if you join boards together that are long, there's a slight gap in the middle and when you apply clamping pressure, it closes that gap and also puts pressure on the ends (picture a dining room table top glue up).

Which actually makes sense. So maybe I won't fiddle with it and trust our Austrian friends did the right thing :)

Sometimes you gotta just ENJOY a new piece of equipment instead of finding something wrong with it (me talking to myself!)

Matt

I agree, especially now that you're not getting snipe.

Online Alanbach

  • Posts: 389
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #104 on: February 26, 2019, 04:46 PM »
Matt, How high are we talking (outfeed table above top knife height)? In my experience all jointers are set 2-3 thousandths high in order to allow exit clearance so that the newly trimmed board’s end does not catch on the outfeed table as it leaves the cutter head. I have never heard of a jointer set up to crown boards?

Offline egmiii

  • Posts: 138
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #105 on: February 26, 2019, 06:02 PM »
Felder calibrates the tables at the factory to produce a slight spring joint. This is done by adjusting the angle of the infeed table. The cutterhead height in relationship to the outfeed table does not come into play here. As the previous poster mentioned, it’s done to allow some clearance so the edge of the board doesn’t catch on the outfeed table. At least that how I understand it.

I wouldn’t suggest trying to adjust the tables to remove the spring joint unless you really know what you are doing and have the proper calibration tools to do so. A Starrett 199z precision level would make the job much easier. I would also opt for a steel straight edge as well. Big bucks unfortunately...

Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 828
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #106 on: February 26, 2019, 06:31 PM »
Never assume that Felder sets their machines up for the NA market they don't. They setup for spring joint as mentioned. I've had 3 of their J/P's and help setup 6 others. Not one came from the factory without snipe when trying to do an edge joint let alone surface jointing. All needed tweaking and some alignment. When I questioned our Felder services techs all the said was it was within there specs. That and $1.50 will get you a coffee. There is absolutely no checks done on the machines between Felder Austria and your home, that's why they recommend commissioning. They come off the container, stored for short time and get shipped out. Get the proper setup instructions, the spring joint may work in some situations but really not very many especially when you get into larger and wider boards for glue ups. I've been on the Felder Owners Group since 2007 and J/P setup has been one of the constant complaints.

Offline blaszcsj

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Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #107 on: February 26, 2019, 10:49 PM »
@kcufstoidi Are there setup instructions outside those in the manual?

Never assume that Felder sets their machines up for the NA market they don't. They setup for spring joint as mentioned. I've had 3 of their J/P's and help setup 6 others. Not one came from the factory without snipe when trying to do an edge joint let alone surface jointing. All needed tweaking and some alignment. When I questioned our Felder services techs all the said was it was within there specs. That and $1.50 will get you a coffee. There is absolutely no checks done on the machines between Felder Austria and your home, that's why they recommend commissioning. They come off the container, stored for short time and get shipped out. Get the proper setup instructions, the spring joint may work in some situations but really not very many especially when you get into larger and wider boards for glue ups. I've been on the Felder Owners Group since 2007 and J/P setup has been one of the constant complaints.
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Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 334
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #108 on: February 27, 2019, 12:21 AM »
@egmiii hit the nail on the head and thanks @kcufstoidi for your view as well!

I connected with Ron at Felder today - he corrected me, I indeed thought the outfield table was set lower than the cutter head, but it's what egmii said - the indeed has a *slight* dip in it closer to the cutter head.

I went down and checked and I think that's right.

I just ran a few Walnut boards through, still getting some snipe.

I'll go take a picture to show you guys:

Let me know if you think this is normal or not - this is coming off the jointer and then the planer, down from 13/16 to about .625"

Matt


Offline kcufstoidi

  • Posts: 828
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #109 on: February 27, 2019, 07:53 AM »
Blazscsj. Yes there are and they are different for the various J/Ps they sell and typically not found in the manual. That's why I said to contact Felder service and talk to service tech. There is typically a set of adjustment screws for both sides of the jointer table. The fence side are typically hidden behind access panels and the out board are obvious as they a used in conjunction with the table lock down system. Others have contacted the right people and got the instructions.

If you see a straight line across your board about 3" in from an end and its a several of thousands of inch lower, that's snipe, both the jointing and planing operations can induce it. Thats why proper jointing must be achieved first. If you get snipe in the planing operation then its typically improper pressure roller adjustment.

Online Alanbach

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Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #110 on: March 16, 2019, 09:14 PM »
@mattbyington - hello! I was curious how things are going with your A3 31? Have you been able to get some support from Hammer and has it resulted in improved cuts? Also are you happy with the dust collection?

Offline mattbyington

  • Posts: 334
Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #111 on: March 17, 2019, 09:16 PM »
@kcufstoidi thank you!

@Alanbach I love it! I'm building my first piece of  furniture with it, so I'll keep you updated!

I did talk to someone @ Felder. I ended up not adjusting the machine.

Adjusting my technique helped a lot. Like not pushing down super hard on the infeed table.

The dust collection is wonderful!

Matt

Online Alanbach

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Re: (It's here!) Just ordered a Hammer A331!
« Reply #112 on: March 17, 2019, 11:30 PM »
That’s great to hear!