Author Topic: Quiet/Silent Compressor  (Read 1783 times)

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Offline Mario Turcot

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Quiet/Silent Compressor
« on: February 23, 2019, 11:24 AM »
I am looking for a quiet compressor. The compressor will be stationary and need to be small enough to fit under a rolling cart. The compressor main use will be to feed a clamping system for the CNC.

and also to air clean surface. So far I found the California Air Tool 2010A with an Alu tank for 249$. Would that compressor be enough for my needs?

Any suggestion?
Mario

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Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2019, 11:33 AM »
Good question! I’ve always wondered how much air flow the Venturi vacuum clamps needed but never tried them because I figure they’d be noisy in addition to the compressor noise.

Offline Mike Goetzke

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2019, 01:44 PM »
Maybe look up California Air. I have a larger compressor from them and it's very quiet compared to other oil-less compressors. They might make a smaller model.

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #3 on: February 23, 2019, 02:14 PM »
Maybe look up California Air. I have a larger compressor from them and it's very quiet compared to other oil-less compressors. They might make a smaller model.

The one I linked on the initial post is one of the smallest compressor they made. I'm just wondering if it will create enough suction to hold down a board.
Mario

Offline rst

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #4 on: February 23, 2019, 03:01 PM »
Mario, vacuum is vacuum, the only effect that the compressor should have is the time for evacuation.  The venturi specs you have should give the CFM required for optimum use.  I bought a CAT 4620 compressor from their Ebay store, supposed to be second (I couldn't find a mark on it)...god, what a difference from my old PC 3hp.  I've been using a $15.00 surplus HVAC for 20 years now and prior to that I used my Craftsman vac and later the intake on my air compressor.
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 03:14 PM by rst »

Offline lshah72414

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #5 on: February 23, 2019, 03:59 PM »
I'd also look into a Rolair JC10 plus. I have one, it is super quiet. It has a small foot print.
Although I am not sure it would be able to run long-term as its manual states it is only meant to be run 40 minutes per hour, not full time. So if vacuum needs were great it may not be able to handle it. If I were you though, I would check it out.

Offline Peter Parfitt

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #6 on: February 23, 2019, 04:11 PM »
Hi Mario

My experience of using compressors with a venturi for vacuum work is that the compressor does a lot of hard work. My old compressor bit the dust as a result of an experiment with a vacuum veneering bag system.

I replaced the compressor with an oil free silent machine from Axminster (I know that you are where you are) and I suspect that the new machine could cope well with the demands of vacuum work.

I am sure that the Swan that I have will be available from other suppliers in the US and elsewhere:



Peter

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #7 on: February 23, 2019, 06:54 PM »
I already have an oil-free 30g but that beast is way too noisy to run in tandem with my CNC. The last thing I want is to get a comp that will not do the job hence why I'm asking you guys  [big grin] I'm not planning to do more then I described but I want to be able at least to inflate a tire if ever I need. Perhaps I could get rid of my 30Gals compressor  [wink]

@rst Yes the one side Vac clamps I bought required 1cfm and the 4620ac give ~6 and the 2010a give ~3 so both should work plenty. Do you suggest the 4620 over the 2010? I really wish there was a local dealer so I can compare both, side by side  [crying] One last question, do you recommend running it ~1hr?

@Peter Parfitt I remember watching that video  [big grin]

@lshah72414 I will look into the Rolair too, thanks
« Last Edit: February 23, 2019, 07:14 PM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Offline ChrisK1970

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #8 on: February 23, 2019, 07:00 PM »
Second to the Rolair, I’ve had mine for maybe four years and love it.
Dark Helmet.....Remember! Evil will always triumph over good. Because good is dumb!

Offline rvieceli

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #9 on: February 24, 2019, 08:07 AM »
@Mario Turcot the quietest compressor is one that’s in another room behind some soundproofing  [big grin]

Buy big, stick out of your workspace or in a soundproof enclosure and pipe the air in.

Ron
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 09:24 AM by rvieceli »

Offline rst

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2019, 08:58 AM »
Mario, I bought the 4620 to replace my horrendously loud PC, which I bought based on CFM delivered.  I have had a Senco 1010 that I drop into a Sys V for years that I use on site.

Online Cheese

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2019, 09:57 AM »
Hey Mario, I'd rethink using an air compressor for vacuum hold down on a CNC. You have the sound of the compressor and also the noise of air escaping from a venturi nozzle. My guess is that the escaping air will be a lot louder and more annoying than the noise of the air compressor.

The compressor also needs to be continuous duty rated. As Peter mentioned, venturi nozzle applications are tough on a compressor because they're not designed to run continuously.

This little gem of knowledge is directly from CAT. The "New" SP Series of Ultra Quiet Air Compressor Motors have been designed to increase duty cycle and allow for longer continuous run times.  So using this on a CNC that can run continuously for hours may cause a premature melt down.

Also the safety issue raises its ugly head. A venturi setup is an open loop system. If the compressor shuts off for some reason, you lose your vacuum now.
A vacuum pump is a closed loop system, if the vac pump shuts off for some reason, you still have a vacuum supply in the hoses.

I've tried this with my Vac Sys. I've attached a board to the Vac Sys and then shut down the Milwaukee vacuum pump. An hour later the board was still attached to the Vac Sys head. An important consideration when you're going to push the CNC start button and then walk away for some period of time.  [smile]

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2019, 10:08 AM »
@Mario Turcot the quietest compressor is one that’s in another room behind some soundproofing  [big grin]

Buy big, stick out of your workspace or in a soundproof enclosure and pipe the air in.

Ron

I hear you on that. I google compressor enclosure for the last two days  [eek] Other room is not an option, I'm in a 20'x20' detached building and adding an extension would be a summer project if possible.

I bought that compressor less than two years ago. It's the old version and was at an unbeatable price 199$. The only problem is the noise and if only the tank was aluminum  [crying]

I had a look at Rolair, more expensive with less specs  [sad]

Anyways, I'm looking at one that I can put under a cart. I figure something like a California Air Tool compressor into a soundproof box would be super silent.

The ACT 4620AC is almost 200$ more expensive than the 2010A but I like the bigger capacity and the two output. By the way any good source for a 110v solenoid valve?
Mario

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2019, 10:10 AM »
I remember reading about a guy using his Fein Turbo vac to hold the work to the spoil bed. It ran continuously for over 24 hours. Not that it was quiet...but don’t try this with a non-bypass motor vac.

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2019, 10:11 AM »
Hey Mario, I'd rethink using an air compressor for vacuum hold down on a CNC. You have the sound of the compressor and also the noise of air escaping from a venturi nozzle. My guess is that the escaping air will be a lot louder and more annoying than the noise of the air compressor.

The compressor also needs to be continuous duty rated. As Peter mentioned, venturi nozzle applications are tough on a compressor because they're not designed to run continuously.

This little gem of knowledge is directly from CAT. The "New" SP Series of Ultra Quiet Air Compressor Motors have been designed to increase duty cycle and allow for longer continuous run times.  So using this on a CNC that can run continuously for hours may cause a premature melt down.

Also the safety issue raises its ugly head. A venturi setup is an open loop system. If the compressor shuts off for some reason, you lose your vacuum now.
A vacuum pump is a closed loop system, if the vac pump shuts off for some reason, you still have a vacuum supply in the hoses.

I've tried this with my Vac Sys. I've attached a board to the Vac Sys and then shut down the Milwaukee vacuum pump. An hour later the board was still attached to the Vac Sys head. An important consideration when you're going to push the CNC start button and then walk away for some period of time.  [smile]

Waiiiiiiiiiiit! You have me rethink the whole ting  [mad]

Where can I find info on that Milwaukee vaccuum pump
Mario

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2019, 10:21 AM »
Any decent vacuum pump should work like that.

Online Cheese

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2019, 10:21 AM »

Waiiiiiiiiiiit! You have me rethink the whole ting  [mad]

Where can I find info on that Milwaukee vaccuum pump

Any vacuum pump will work Mario. Think about a vacuum bagging operation using epoxy. That pump would have to run continuously for hours.

Under a previous Vac Sys thread, there were several discussions on small vacuum pumps from veneering supply houses. They were as cheap or cheaper than the air compressor you're looking at.

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2019, 10:29 AM »
Also depends on the whole system not leaking, hose, fittings, clamp. How long the work stays tight after the pump shuts off generally depends more on the nature of the work itself. Porous stuff like mdf and oak will release quickly.

Online Cheese

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2019, 10:34 AM »
Here's one thread where Joe Woodworker veneering supplies is mentioned. Also scroll down to a Rick Christopherson discussion of a continuous duty pump.

http://festoolownersgroup.com/festool-tools-accessories/dual-use-of-the-vac-sys-pump/msg316140/#msg316140

@rst has mentioned several times that he purchased a vac pump for $25 and is still using it 25 years later...or something to that effect.  [smile]
« Last Edit: February 24, 2019, 10:53 AM by Cheese »

Offline Mario Turcot

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2019, 11:00 AM »
Ok I have to go back to the drawing board. If I use one of those venturi clamps, the clamping elements have to be 100% out of any cutting area. If I cut over one of the clamps I will loose suction right?
Mario

Offline Michael Kellough

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #20 on: February 24, 2019, 11:25 AM »
These are questions best asked at a CNC forum but as I understand it if you cut a hole through the work over an air clamp (Venturi or vacuum) you’ll not only loose the clamping action but the work will lift up some (decompression of the gasket).

Online Cheese

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2019, 11:36 AM »
What Michael said... [big grin]

Also going back to an earlier Michael statement, MDF will not work on a vac system, it's too porous. I've fixed that by putting a couple of coats of sanding sealer on both surfaces of the MDF.

If you cut through the wooden substrate and if that's over a vacuum path, you will lose your hold down clamping.

Offline Peter Halle

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2019, 01:51 PM »
I am certainly late to this discussion, but a Venturi pump would be miserable to use.  As already suggested a vacuum pump may be able to do this for you.  The smaller the pump you go the smarter you will need to be as to how many suction points, etc.  Also if you want to set up a large grid you might want to look at check valves (balls) for the suction points to allow unneeded points to not be wasting the limited suction you have.  With a small system you’re approaching the effect of the old Christmas tree lights where if one went out they all went out.

Peter

Offline denovo

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Re: Quiet/Silent Compressor
« Reply #23 on: February 24, 2019, 03:24 PM »

Also going back to an earlier Michael statement, MDF will not work on a vac system, it's too porous. I've fixed that by putting a couple of coats of sanding sealer on both surfaces of the MDF.


Depending on the strength of your vacuum pump and qaulity of mdf it usually works.  The festool pump will hold two superior grade mdf panels without a problem but a third does not work as the mdf starts leaking more air then the pump can remove