Author Topic: Barn makeover  (Read 11240 times)

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Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6475
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #30 on: October 28, 2018, 12:34 AM »
It works well to keep moisture out of burial cables, but it really makes a huge mess with everything it touches.  We often had to just throw away our contaminated clothing because the stuff didn't want to come out.   [bite tongue]

Thanks for that. 🙏
Well then my question becomes, if you were running cable to your own homestead, would you use the silicone filled stuff or not?

And if not, what would be the options you'd be comfortable with?

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3820
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #31 on: October 28, 2018, 10:36 AM »
It works well to keep moisture out of burial cables, but it really makes a huge mess with everything it touches.  We often had to just throw away our contaminated clothing because the stuff didn't want to come out.   [bite tongue]

Thanks for that. 🙏
Well then my question becomes, if you were running cable to your own homestead, would you use the silicone filled stuff or not?

And if not, what would be the options you'd be comfortable with?

Direct burial cable (Type UF) doesn't have the silicone fill.  It's nonetheless a real booger to work with, but I've never had it leak unless there was an immediate cause, like a nick by someone digging in the vicinity.  I've come to like liquidtight conduit (Type LFMC) with a pull string, provided someone doesn't inadvertently pull out the pull string. 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Alanbach

  • Posts: 411
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #32 on: October 28, 2018, 11:57 AM »
When I did my shop I wanted a low voltage run and some room for growth. After hearing what I wanted, my electrician told me what kind of pvc conduit to buy and he gave me a bunch of pull string. I glued the conduit together and ran the pull string through it as I went. All the electrician had to do was kick it into the trench and add the fittings to bring the two new pvc conduits up into place. He properly buried the voltage conduits to comply with code and then to also give enough room between the low voltage extra conduits and the voltage wires before I topped off the trench. It cost me almost nothing more than the parts. I have used those conduits twice in the last ten years. Just don’t forget to run a new pull cord when you use the existing one to pull a new wire.

Offline ERG

  • Posts: 34
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #33 on: March 24, 2019, 09:49 PM »
Alright boys, I'm back at work on the barn...

Bought some windows at the end of summer and the weather was nice enough to install them.



Hooked up the new panel just before it started snowing last year. Does that look up to code? Just kidding, it's a temporary circuit I put on while I was re-framing the windows.

I'll be pulling the wire I put in last year and I'll start from scratch with 12/2 and 20 amps circuits.

I have an issue I need advice with. Water is seeping under the cinder blocks of the footer. I plan to have a nice finished floor there so we can't have water, obviously. I looked at parging the outside but it doesn't look like that helps with waterproofing. I see rubber product I might be able to paint on but I'm not sure how good that would be. Any ideas?


 

Offline rvieceli

  • Posts: 1045
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #34 on: March 24, 2019, 10:24 PM »
@ERG you need to keep the water away from the building rather than attempting to keep the water out once it gets there.
if you have gutters make sure that they are clear and the downspouts empty and flow away from the base of the building. If you don't have gutters, consider installing.

Make sure the surrounding grade slopes away from the foundation and doesn't let water pool around the base. if it's not possible to totally slope away from the base, consider sloping to a ditch a few feet away from the building that then runs the water away.

If that doesn't work then you may need to also trench around the foundation and install a French drain that drains to daylight ideally or a dry well.

Ron

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6475
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #35 on: March 24, 2019, 10:48 PM »
Ya Ron’s got this one handled entirely. Gutters and a slope away from the building are your friends.

One other thing to consider is if the building doesn’t have gutters, look at where the roof ends in relation to the ground. After many years of runoff from the roof, the constant pounding of the rain can make a 4"-5" wide trench around the building that’s perpendicular to the edge of the roof. A mini moat of sorts is formed around the building and prevents the water from draining properly. Worse yet, if there isn't a steep pitch away from the building, the mini moat will fill up and water will flow back to the building.  [eek]

Easy to fix, just add gutters and add soil to provide a proper continuous slope away from the building.

If you don’t like 10’ gutter extensions laying on the ground to interfere with grass mowing, just install 10’ pvc extensions underground with pop up water emitters. They work real slick.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2019, 08:33 AM by Cheese »

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3820
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #36 on: March 25, 2019, 09:22 AM »
I'd add that it might be a really good idea to install foundation drains, too, with leaders that carry water well away from the structure.  Then you can feed the gutters into the drains.  Mo' bettah good, yah?  Once you get it proven dry, then you can epoxy the concrete and do it right.   [smile]
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 933
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #37 on: March 25, 2019, 12:38 PM »
@ERG

One thing to consider about electrical panel is vibration. There is vibration everywhere, when it comes to electrical installation it's a real P.I.T.A. to find out the source of problem.

Tips:
-After 12 months you get your panel setup, revisit every breaker screws if you are using bolt-on breakers. For the clip-on breakers I suggest that you check the wire connection and apply good pressure on each breaker from the central bus.

As an industrial electrician I did my fair share of building shutdown inspections.  It's amazing how many breakers/connections come loose in a 12 months period.
Mario

Offline Tinker

  • Posts: 3719
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #38 on: March 25, 2019, 04:43 PM »
From the pic you showed it looks like the sills are barely above ground. It looks like you have a good slope all around. at least on the down hill side. You are in a cold climate and good grading is important. A french drain all around where the drip line from the roof. I don't know what temperatures you will be dealing with. Once heat is in the barn, i think the slope to the lower roof will shed snow and the ice buildup will not create a dam at the eaves. i don't think your should install gutters. You have good grade and a good french drain to grade should be adequate. Better make the surface of the stone a little lower than grade to catch water from snowmelt and rain. From your photo, it looks like you may have vertical siding. Whatever siding you have, see if it is possible to tuck flashing under the siding and down at least to ground level along the foundation.  It you can afford to regrade around the foundation, get the gradeatleast afoot down from the sills. That might not be possible if the footings are not deep enough.

When i was in construction, it is funny, i almost never was called to fix water problem when a house was close to a swamp. All the problems were on high ground like your barn is. The responder who suggested don't try to get rid of the water after it gets into the building, just figure out how to get it away from the building before it gets in. you had good grade on the one side of the barn. I can't tell what the other side is, but you do have change to drain the water well awayfrom the building. I don't recommend the gutters in your climate asi mentioned above. I have had to shovel many roofs in heavy snow year. All had gutters. And, they were way down here in Connecticut. I think you just might have a little more snow in your area. Maybe not so much ice involvement with winter storms. I don't know about that.

Stay away from dry wells to catch all the water from the roof unless you have excellent drainage. Heavy rain after the gound is already saturated from week of rain, and all the wells can be full and then you have more problems.

Tinker
Wayne H. Tinker

Offline ERG

  • Posts: 34
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #39 on: March 25, 2019, 07:45 PM »
Thanks all for your good advice. Sounds like I'll have to do some digging this summer. I can't see another way to manage the water other than having a dry well, it's pretty flat all around. What do you suggest?

Offline ERG

  • Posts: 34
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #40 on: March 25, 2019, 08:50 PM »
Also, how do you suggest I insulate the cinder blocks? I was thinking of a layer of rigid insulation and then plywood to protect it.


Offline ERG

  • Posts: 34
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #41 on: March 31, 2019, 09:23 PM »
I made a little bit of progress this weekend. I've decided to fur out the studs to 2x6 to have better insulation. I've also found that 2x6 insulation is more readily available on kijiji so I've been able to purchase half of what I need for half of the price of 2x4 R12.

Here's how it looks so far:




I had some roxul left from another project and used it where the thickness was less than 2x6. The window headers got filled with roxul 2x4 and will get 2 inch of rigid to help with thermal bridging.

I didn't do the lower section yet because I have more circuits to run.

Quite a bit of water running under the foundation right now and there isn't much I can do until the ground thaws. 

Offline Bob D.

  • Posts: 1299
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #42 on: April 01, 2019, 04:23 AM »
Looks like you will have a nice big shop when you're done.

Is there a reason to use unfaced insulation or maybe you plan on a separate moisture retarder of plastic.

That fluorescent lamp in the trash pile worries me. They contain mercury (<10mg per bulb) and that one is positioned to be easily broken.
-----
It's a table saw, do you know where your fingers are?

Offline ERG

  • Posts: 34
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #43 on: April 01, 2019, 06:44 AM »
@Bob D. They don't sell it faced here because you have to use 6 mil vapor barrier on top of your insulation. That will go on after the bats are all on.

Everything in there keeps getting moved around, that fluorescent is going to the hazardous material bin at work today.

Offline Jiggy Joiner

  • Posts: 788
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #44 on: April 02, 2019, 07:25 AM »
That’s a beautiful building, and will make a superb workshop.
We have had jobs where water has been coming in right at base level, and we usually dig out, and water proof the bricks or blocks with a bitumen like coating, or even lead flashing, then run an Aco drainage ststem all around the perimeter of the building. Then run the gutter downpipes into the drain also. This cures the problem.

It’s looking great though, I’d love that in my back garden!

Offline ERG

  • Posts: 34
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #45 on: April 02, 2019, 07:34 AM »

Offline ERG

  • Posts: 34
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #46 on: April 26, 2019, 09:58 AM »
I've been making slow progress, mostly working on wiring.

I've pulled the 14/2 I had and replaced it with 12/2 and made my wall outlets a 20A circuit. I've ran another 250v/20a circuit around the shop for my machines and got sweet double receptacles. I had wire leftover from my house work and ran a 50A circuit for a welder.

I also ran 8 gauge wire to where my dust collector will be. Right now it will be a 30A circuit for my Felder RL125 but I will be able to upgrade down the road if I need to. I had the wire so no cost there.

Added a dedicated circuit for the boiler I plan to use for heat. One more circuit for outside outlets and lights. I have to run two more circuits for the loft outlets and lights.

It's hard figuring out everything before I can put the vapor barrier on the walls. 

I think I will build the stairs this weekend or change the exterior door. I will try to post pictures later.

Offline ERG

  • Posts: 34
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2019, 08:12 AM »
Alright, I haven't been around for a while, I've been working on things around the house...

Here's some progress for those following.

I borrowed a bobcat and back filled the trench and moved my tools in the barn.



I re-framed the door opening and put in a new door. You can see new windows have also been put in.



I terminated the CAT6 cable and put in a PoE switch for a camera and access point.



I built some stairs and removed the original ones, finished most of the insulation on two walls and added the vapor barrier. I also put 8 new LED shoplights.



Next steps is to run the last circuit for the loft, add junction boxes for the outside lights, frame a temporary wall over the sliding barn door opening so I can remove its hardware and insulate the last wall.

Offline Sparktrician

  • Posts: 3820
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #48 on: May 16, 2019, 07:26 PM »
It would be a good idea to install a whole-house surge protector in the shop panel (as well as in the main panel in the house, if you don't have one). 
- Willy -

 "Remember, a chip on the shoulder is a sure sign of wood higher up." - Brigham Young

Offline ERG

  • Posts: 34
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #49 on: May 23, 2019, 09:16 PM »
@Sparktrician Alright I'll look into it, thanks.

Here's some more insulation and vapor barrier progress. I've removed the sliding barn door because the rail was on a plywood wall that I needed to open for insulation. I have OSB temporary.

 





I had an energy audit done on my house and that really showed how much air is coming through the outlets when under negative pressure so now I tape the heck of out every opening.

I left poly on top so I can close the joist cavity after I insulate it. Right now I just wanted to clear the walls so I can start using my tools again.

I think I will put 2 inch rigid insulation around the cinder blocks, and lay poly over before I put flooring down.

Offline Cheese

  • Posts: 6475
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #50 on: May 24, 2019, 09:39 AM »
It's coming along nicely. Those LEDs seem to throw a lot of light. Which ones are you using?

Offline ERG

  • Posts: 34
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2019, 10:18 AM »
@Cheese
Not sure what's the policy on links here but they were from amazon "Linkable LED Shop light for garages,4FT 4500LM,40W 5000K Daylight White" I paid $132 CAD for a pack of 4.

Offline ERG

  • Posts: 34
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #52 on: May 30, 2019, 07:39 AM »
I was busy last weekend but I've managed to make progress. I've decided to go with fiberglass for my roof insulation to save $2500 compared to spray foam. With that decision made, I went ahead and insulated my rim joists, tied in my vapor barrier and used acoustic sealer to go around the joist. While I was there, I've added blocks so I can put drywall in between the joists.

It doesn't look like much but it was a few hours to get it done.



I think I'll work on making doors for the front opening next. The plywood here is temporary.

Offline Mario Turcot

  • Posts: 933
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #53 on: May 31, 2019, 03:36 PM »
@ERG I'm also planning on a surge protector. Here the best option I found so far on Amazon very simple to install.

It's coming nicely, looks like you had a lot of fun with the Tuck Tape  [tongue]
« Last Edit: May 31, 2019, 03:39 PM by Mario Turcot »
Mario

Offline ERG

  • Posts: 34
Re: Barn makeover
« Reply #54 on: June 04, 2019, 08:55 AM »
@Mario Turcot
I had the energy audit done on my house and realized how much air comes through the outlets on external walls. I figure a little tape is cheap and goes a long way for air tightness.

The tape wasn't bad but the acoustic sealer is a bit of a pain to apply. I'm not sure if it ever dries. I think it just stays sticky forever.