About Festool Tools ?

[boisetmetal]

Hello

I often have the feeling in France that when we talk about Festool compared to other products, there has Festool and others.
And many people thinks that there are the fans, who are stupid to pay as much tools.

This reminds me of an era war between Apple Computer and others.

And I often reminds that while some brands such as Festool, Mafell, etc are more expensive is that there has research laboratories to evolve tools. Festool advance and invent many products.
Other brands have only copy.
And we find the same thing for Apple, or indeed they were the first of many things.

So jealous of those who do not have Festool?

I do not know if the USA you also have heated debates between Festool users and others?

Thank you very much for your attention!

 

[mdelrossi]

If you go to some of the other tool forums, both DIY and professional, you will always come across the " they're too expensive, I can get 2 tools for the same price" arguments.
Usually from people that have never even picked up a Festool tool, never mind used one.
Festool doesn't alway have the best solution and some of their tools could use some upgrades, adding an light to the routers comes to mind.

But as a system especially the tools that use dust extraction I don't think they can be beat.
Just use a 55req with dust extraction then make the same cut with an ordinary saw and you will then understand the difference.

I got into Festool because of the whole HEPA dust extractor, we are doing some renovations, my wife is allergic to dust and spending an hour sweeping, vacuuming, and dusting at the end of each day didn't sound like fun.

Everyone has their own opinion.

mdr

 

[DanielOB]

Accuracy of tool itself
Accuracy of used Roller-Bearing and Journal-Bearing too (runout, …)
Accuracy of collets, chucks, … (runout, parallelit, …)
Materials used to build the whole unit
Assembly accuracy (e.g. not properly tightened some Screws, stripped threads, …)
Aesthetic of individual parts and the whole unit.
Reliability of parts, materials and functionality.
Robustness of the unit
Compatibility with other tools in the game (use the same rails for Router, Saw, …)
Where it is produced or who made parts and who assembled all parts
Cleaning and priming prior to painting (put a sticker on it and remove it – paint comes off or not)
Right choice of materials driven by the technical knowledge or only by the cost
And so on and on …

Festool are one of the best tools on the market regarding technical “quality” of their products.
One simple example: I have all-new DeWalt Plunger-Router and it has good rocking around slides. You must cut and try to assembly work done with it, if it fit go, if not rework. But the point is I cannot count on its work. With Festool Plunger-Router there is ZERO rocking and I am very confident to design my work with computer, cut all parts and just assembly. All is always OK and what I predicted. I work with confidence and music when i use Festool. Festool are predictable tool…

For all qualities Festool offers, if one wish to have it, he have to pay. Many people just do not care for their work and they do not need high quality tools.

At the end there are expensive Swiss-made watches ($10 000 and up), and there are China made $10 and under. It is up you what you wish to have. There is Leica R8 and Leica Lenses ($2000 and up) and there are cameras $20 and under.
Many times that tiny quality hiden in well-made tools play very large game in human living (e.g. sound quality of Leica Photo-Camera when re-winding film changed the World ... (e.g. look at Magnum photo-agency)).

 

[jamanjeval]

If I could go to home depot and pick up a tool as good as Festool at half the cost, you can bet I would but I can't. If Festool were so overpriced as some people feel, another tool company could come in and take their customers. It is important to remember that there is a lot more to the price of a product than the cost of the materials and manufacturing. Festool has very good customer service, but that is not what I'm talking about.

Festool sometimes adopts some less than popular standards, like arbor size on their circular saws, but most always seem to do it because it is better for some reason or another. Recently, I was thinking about Festool cordless tools. I use and have used milwaukee for a very long time going all the way back to the early 12V ones (or maybe it was 9.2? I don't remember). I love the performance I get from the 18V fuel with 4AH batteries. What I don't like is how Milwaukee is always changing their battery connectors and making you adopt all new tools. Festool 12V lithium batteries work in 12, 15.6 and 18V tools. Awesome. Try putting a 12V milwaukee battery in an 18V tool. You can't. That is part of the cost you don't see and done just to keep you spending money. When Fesool starts to have a more comprehensive line of cordless tools, especially one like the sawzall, I'll consider making the switch. Oh, and after trying a Festool cordless, I realized the trigger was better and made the tool a lot more controllable at low speeds. Nice.

Festool dust collectors cost a lot but are in line with similar performing units that you won't find at your local big box home improvement store.

Festool and other higher end tools have their place. They cost a lot more and aren't for everyone. But, you can't just write them off and label them as overpriced.

While Fesool is unjustly criticized, it goes the other way too. I have seen some elitists here on the forums that feel if it is not Festool, it is junk and resort to personal attacks. Stop it. There are some incredibly talented and generous members who help out others by moderating the forums, answering posts and making videos. By acting childish, you are not only being a jerk to the person you are responding to you are being a jerk to everyone.

 

[boisetmetal]

A pleasure to read this !
What a pleasure to be on this forum Festool. 

I know one think, that I have also allergic problem and with the CTL 26 AC, it really no problem for me !

As I have said on french forums where we can have the chance to have the system (MFT / 3 and routers, sanders, vacuum cleaners, MFS and the rest) of a sudden we understand the integration and include the words "system and option"!

But in fact when you take the system as a whole is really great!

What I still miss is the CMS part. But it will happen one day too because I also think as many of you as Festool is a whole!

 

[boisetmetal]

For all cases and for France I know that more and more people are looking for a price, not a product.
One should find out what is needed as a tool, what is expected of them and thus move toward what we are looking for!
And when the price is difficult is not it better to wait.
I do so with Festool. I know what I want so I take my time to get the money and have just the tool that will be best for my needs!

Search price is necessarily a tool that will find the right price but will be just as disappointing!

 

[sancho57]

Oh ye Eric,In the states we have some "interesting" discussions about festools.

I look at it like this, you can buy a yugo or a bentley.Both will get you around town. One does it with ease and if you have to go fast one can do that.

Both will get you where you want to go. One does it alot easier and faster and more style

 

[mike_aa]

I'm one of those people who thought that I would never own any Festool because of the price and what Jobsworth says about the other tools being good enough for the job.

However, I don't recall exactly when, but sometime in the last 6-8 months I became aware of the superior dust extraction, especially with the sanders.  I just used a Festool sander recently right in our great room.  It wasn't a big job, but there was really no dust and it was being collected by a HEPA extractor. 

For me, it's worth every penny to keep my lungs clear and retain my health.  I got interested in this area when I found out that the big DC with the cloth bag that I bought years ago for my table saw was giving me a false sense of security since it doesn't filter anywhere fine enough to remove the bad stuff.

The other thing that took me by surprise is how well the sander operated and how easy it was to get to a good looking finished product without too much effort and time.  It literally danced random orbits around any other sanders I've owned.

Mike A.

 

[gkaiseril]

There are many cost involved in evaluating tools or other purchases.

First there is the initial purchase cost.
Then the cost or supplies to operate the equipment.
Possibly repair costs.
Other cost of use like cleanup.
Some other factors involving ease of use, ease of transportation, customer service, etc.
Some all of these over the life of the tool to get the true cost of ownership of the tool.

You pay more to purchase the tool but the tool last longer.
You pay more for the supplies but they last longer or you use less for a task.
You have a 1year + 2 year warranty.
You spend less time cleaning up saw dust from cutting or sanding. More time for productive work.
There is a standard foot print for the containers and they stack an lock. You can carry multiple tools at one time. They store square, They can sit on a dolly.

If one looks at the cost and time over the life to tool and the tool and it should come out equal to or less than the cost of other tools over the life of the Festool.

 

[sancho57]

George makes a good point to. If you add in the cost of having to go a buy a tool in the middle of a job that adds quite alot to the cost of doing business. Where with festool yes it does happen but not very often.

Plus the service and support when something does happen or need advice on set up etc is plain awesome.

 

[Brentley]

If you look at what a decent analog costs in some categories, the festool is not all that expensive.  Track saws is a good example, the dewalt is only $115 dollars less than the festool but then you have a track saw that is pretty good and a track.  they sell a couple of pieces that connect to the track for things but not very many.  The system engineering is pretty good, to borrow the Apple analogy the "eco system" that festool has created is pretty great. 

But where festool kills Dewalt etc. is in dust extraction, especially with sanders, the sanders work so well that my wife will use my festool sanders and sand inside of our house when she is painting.  No other sander even comes close. 

 

[boisetmetal]

Hello there,

I know one thing on my side is that at the beginning when I was only a few Elements Festool, it was not obvious you can really understand that the system works as a whole. (A bit like Apple making machine and the software)
In fact I think anyone who wants to work in really focusing on his task, will connect the vacuum cleaner and have around vacuuming, sander, saw, router and other tools and advance the project.
With the MFT / 3 table, that cut, grind, or use the router, many things become easy!
Certainly for many Festool tools I amenagé options and more, and every month I furthers things to work with comfort.
But when I see a carpenter friend to him at all brands, well it is not ausi ​​natural and not as easy for him to do things ... It lacks the system !

As I always say no brand is perfect ...

But I think to go far Festool is a good starting point! Then yes they may have to seek and invent many things, there is a cost!
As Audi drive as Apple Computer, as micro tool in Proxxon etc etc etc ...

Lots of good things to you all,

eric

 

[sancho57]

I agree Eric,

If you dont really have the "system" you can never really know how well the system works , If that makes sense

 

[boisetmetal]

Exactly…
This for that, I try to make video to show how Festool system is really interessing and productive !

take care,

eric

 

[sancho57]

I like your videos very much. I just posted a project that I used only festools to show how the system works.

It all works together.

Have you made any new videos?

 

[boisetmetal]

Normaly this friday I will do recording with TS 75, OF 1400, MFT/3, perhaps a sander, and I wish to do and finish editing this Week End !

see you soon

eric

 

[Acrobat]

Whilst trying not to come across as a tool snob, I watch woodworking clips on YouTube quite a bit and notice whenever someone is not using a tool hooked up to a vac. I'm amazed at how much dust and debris just gets tossed into the air and they just don't seem to notice it at all. I think "Are they nuts?. I used to be like that, but now I always hook up my tools whether they be Festool or not and curse myself if I forget to bring a vac. I'm so used to using them together now it seems dumb not to, and I did that for many years. I really appreciate having less dust, and I'm getting rather anal and fussy about it as I get on. I'm a convert to festools "systems" approach, and yeah the initial purchase price is very high, so for me a DIYer, I look at it as getting a tool that will last me for 20 years and as such am slowly replacing all the el-cheapo's that I've struggled with and didn't get the same results I get with some Festools I have. They aren't perfect but a damn sight better than whatever I had before and my work quality has improved along with them. My friends think I'm nuts for paying so much, but I wish I learnt about Festool years ago, I wouldn't have had so much frustration and having to replace crap tools, but it's been a learning curve I guess and my nephew benefits as he gets all the old tools whenever I upgrade so thats 2 people happy.

 

[boisetmetal]

And yes I agree with you!
How many clouds of dust and chips? too much

And between chips and wood dust that fall to the ground and increase the risk of slipping!
How many can not imagine all that the nose, lungs will breathe and catch ...
Unfortunately the wood burned. So much dust, too many chips and a spark ... And presto fire!

So then do not forget that a tool that evacuated chips and dust will range f live much longer.
Festool tools are indeed made ​​to last many years in a pro shop! So if you make less intensive use, the tools can not last longer still!

So if we add derriere guaranteed to have for 10 years after the end of production detached parts, as indeed do not starve yourself to go to Festool Tools ... after tools have a fleet that will meet our expectations!