Additional large surface sander for DTS400?

[rbrt86]

Hi,

I recently bought a DTS 400 and it's my first Festool, used to have 'bosch green' like sanders before. The difference is huge, and I'm really happy with my purchase. However I've read everywhere that the DTS 400 is more a 'finish sander' and although it works a lot better and faster then what I'm used to, I notice that it still takes me a long time for removing old paint layers on larger surfaces. I've tried grid 40-60-80 papers and that makes a large difference, but I'm trying to find out if I should invest in another Festool (propably caught the Festool Virus..)

To indicate what I plan to use the new device for: I usually remove old paintwork, mostly on window frames, doors etc, but there's a lot of large surfaces I need to sand (sheds, fences and painted wooden panels). Especially with old paint I like to sand it all off, untill I reach the wood and then repaint the entire surface.

I've read a lot of these topics and the opinions vary but I'm currently looking towards a Rotex 125 or an ETS (EC?) 125. The EC is a lot more expensive but I've read it has an induction motor which I expect would last me a lifetime. The Rotex (on youtube at least) seems to be the best choice for removing old layers of paint but I've read some complaints about deep scratches which need repolishing.

To clarify, I'm not a professional (no surprise there), just a guy who likes renovating/painting in the weekends. Festool is a bit over my budget but if there's another device which suits my needs and adds to my DTS400 I think it's worth considering

 

[mrboult]

I own the Rotex 125 and purchased then sold the Rotex 150 for a project where I had a sh*t ton of sanding to do. . . The Rotex sanders can remove material quickly like no other orbital I've seen tried.

I love my RO 125 it is a very very versatile sander. But it can be a bit of a handful to use in the Rotex mode. It can jump around a lot, especially near/on edges, and it just generally takes care and experience to use effectively. With my experience and strength I don't really have an issue with it and often use the sander one handed, but I've seen others say they found the RO 125 un-usable due to this behaviour and I can kind of understand that.

The RO 150 is another story. Surprisingly smooth and stable during even the most hardcore of power sanding.

The ETS EC sander seem great, no personal experience though. The ETS EC 125 is able to take the pad from the 150 also (ETS EC 150) this is not an official feature of the tool, and Festool have suggested against it, but it seems there is no real valid reason for NOT putting a 150 pad on the ETS EC 125 and several member here do it regularly.

Makita have their own version of the RO 150 these days. Think I've heard fairly positive thing about it here on the FOG.

 

[jaguar36]

I own the Rotex 125 and purchased then sold the Rotex 150 for a project where I had a sh*t ton of sanding to do. . . The Rotex sanders can remove material quickly like no other orbital I've seen tried.

+1
If you want to remove large amounts of material in a short amount of time the Rotex 150 is the way to go.  I'm not even sure a belt sander could take material off as fast as it.  It is expensive though, and can be tiring to use.

 

[rbrt86]

Thanks for your replies!

I've seen that the Rotex 150 is by far the best (most aggressive) one for the job, but over here it's almost twice as expensive as the ETS 150/5 (which according to the guide should also be good enough for exterior sanding:http://topcoatreview.com/2017/03/which-festool-sander/ )

In video's I've seen that the difference is in the 'random orbit' part, which allows the disc to be stopped on the ETS models, where rotex just keeps rotating. Will the ETS be good enough for removing (many) layers of paint? I dont mind taking more time on a job if that would save a lot of money, but the ETS disk seems to stop rather easy..

 

[Vondawg]

+ Like others have said....in 40 plus years I've never been able to remove finish or material, like I can with the  Rotex (both 90 and 125) the combination of the two are so impressive I don't know what I'd do without them- well...id just not do it!

 

[nickao]

Hi,

I recently bought a DTS 400 and it's my first Festool, used to have 'bosch green' like sanders before. The difference is huge, and I'm really happy with my purchase. However I've read everywhere that the DTS 400 is more a 'finish sander' and although it works a lot better and faster then what I'm used to, I notice that it still takes me a long time for removing old paint layers on larger surfaces. I've tried grid 40-60-80 papers and that makes a large difference, but I'm trying to find out if I should invest in another Festool (propably caught the Festool Virus..)

To indicate what I plan to use the new device for: I usually remove old paintwork, mostly on window frames, doors etc, but there's a lot of large surfaces I need to sand (sheds, fences and painted wooden panels). Especially with old paint I like to sand it all off, untill I reach the wood and then repaint the entire surface.

I've read a lot of these topics and the opinions vary but I'm currently looking towards a Rotex 125 or an ETS (EC?) 125. The EC is a lot more expensive but I've read it has an induction motor which I expect would last me a lifetime. The Rotex (on youtube at least) seems to be the best choice for removing old layers of paint but I've read some complaints about deep scratches which need repolishing.

To clarify, I'm not a professional (no surprise there), just a guy who likes renovating/painting in the weekends. Festool is a bit over my budget but if there's another device which suits my needs and adds to my DTS400 I think it's worth considering

If power is the main concern with money being a close second the Bosch 1250 DEVS  is the sander for you. Today the Bosch 1250 cost 276.00 on Amazon, but on Amazon and other sites it does sell for 250.00 quite often. So keep close watch.

It is every bit as good as the Rotex 150, in some ways better. The Bosch 1250 contains more metal and doesn't hop around as much as the Rotex in use. The dust collection is 100% as good as the Rotex and power for power there is no difference at all between the two in Rotary modes.

I do prefer the Rotex, but it's not becasue of power it's simply becasue I am used to the way it handles. Most people will prefer the Bosch 1250 Devs as it's smoother running and gives a better sand finish when it's NOT in Rotary mode compared to the Rotex. I never even use the Rotex 150 in regular mode as the finish just is not good, I only use the Rotex 150 in Rotary mode. Once I am done using Rotary mode with the RO 150  I go to my EC 150/5 then my EtS 150/3 to get the perfect finish.

The most powerful sander Festool makes is actually the RAS 180. The Ras 180sands about 3 times faster than the Rotex 150, I bought one straight from Germany. When I have large surfaces that are flat and need to be done fast I pull it out the RAS 180 every time, it makes the Rotex 150 look like a toy.  I can't imagine most people would ever need the RAS 180 like I do, but if you need large flat surface sanded flat(like the hull of a boat) and aren't afraid of sanding through wood, the RAS 180 is probably the most powerful on the planet. I only wish the RAS 180 and the 115 for that matter had through the paper dust collection.

Here is a link to the 1250 Devs, you wont regret the purchase and it's half the cost of the RO 150:
https://www.amazon.com/Bosch-1250DE...?ie=UTF8&qid=1501071600&sr=8-1&keywords=bosch+1250devs

 

[semenza]

Thanks for your replies!

I've seen that the Rotex 150 is by far the best (most aggressive) one for the job, but over here it's almost twice as expensive as the ETS 150/5 (which according to the guide should also be good enough for exterior sanding:http://topcoatreview.com/2017/03/which-festool-sander/ )

In video's I've seen that the difference is in the 'random orbit' part, which allows the disc to be stopped on the ETS models, where rotex just keeps rotating. Will the ETS be good enough for removing (many) layers of paint? I dont mind taking more time on a job if that would save a lot of money, but the ETS disk seems to stop rather easy..

Hi,

    Welcome to the forum!  [smile]

      If you really want to get the paint removal job done the Rotex 150 is the way to go. It sounds like you have a lot of this type work to do.  The ETS or ETS/EC (not ETS125) series will do the job well but still much slower than Rotex especially if you run into multiple layers of paint. Switching between Rotex and random orbit mode is easy and will make quick work if sanding out some marks from the aggressive mode is required. It will still be faster even if that additional sanding is needed. I would not advocate pressing down on a sander but the Rotex 150 also has the power to allow for some additional added pushing if needed which can be especially helpful on vertical surfaces where you can't rely on the weight of the sander to do the job.  I have used RO150, ETS150/5, RO90 to remove layers of paint. I choose the RO150 every time for that task.

    There is also the RAS115 ..... that will take paint off really fast, but with less control and will leave marks and does not have the capability to sand out said marks.

Seth

 

[AlexThePalex]

I also think the Rotex 150 is the best choice for the work you describe. It is excellent with removing lots of paint and larger surfaces.

 

[Cheese]

How many gallons of paint stripper can you purchase for the price of a Rotex and the sand paper that will be consumed?

If it's only a couple of layers of paint, then that makes sense, however it seems that these articles you are describing probably have multiple layers of paint. So rather than grinding through all of the layers, just strip them off. You'll then be left with a thin layer of something (?) that the DTS 400 with proper grit paper will easily sand through.

There are also lots of different styles of trim that will be encountered when sanding windows & doors. The stripper will also work better on those non-flat surfaces.

 

[rbrt86]

Thank you all for your replies

I've did some additional reading based on your advice and it turns out the 1250DEVS is sold in Europe as GEX150 Turbo, cheapest price here is 400 euro. I looked at Amazon.de but they weren't much cheaper unfortunatelly. So the price difference between the Bosch and the Festool Rotex is 100 euro's, will the Rotex be 100,- worth extra? So far all reactions point to Festool Rotex being worth the money

Indeed paint stripper will probably be far cheaper then 500 euro's for a Rotex considering the limited amount I'm doing as a non-professional. The house we currently live in has a lot of woodwork tot sand, but of course I could rent a Rotex for that. The problem is that we're going to find another (old) house to buy in the near future and the house of my parents could really use some proper paintwork as well, so that's why I'm considering these machines.

I notice that I'm sometimes too impatient to properly sand, so the woodwork is not completely smooth when I start painting, especially with these older houses and I'd like to change that in the future.

So now I'm considering the Rotex 150 (best but most expensive), Bosch GEX 150 (very good but not as budget-friendly as in the US), the ETS 150/5 (light, cheaper but maybe not powerfull enough) and I've also read somewhere that the Metabo SXE 450 is a good bang for the buck, although I realise that it's not in the same category as the Bosch and Rotex.

Maybe I'll rent a Rotex, and wait untill I find a good deal on a used one  [big grin]

 

[AlexThePalex]

Where are you based? Festools lend themselves very well for the 2nd hand market. I bought my Rotex 150 as good as new for half price from marktplaats.nl

But I don't think you can easily find a Rotex for rent. I've never seen them anywhere for rent. Festool's premium price make that they're not interesting for rent businesses.

 

[Cheese]

But I don't think you can easily find a Rotex for rent. I've never seen them anywhere for rent. Festool's premium price make that they're not interesting for rent businesses.

Alex is onto something here...I've rented tools from a number of places for a day or two and have never seen a single Festool item available for rent.

 

[rbrt86]

I'm based in the Netherlands, just as you haha, I just noticed my profile didn't contain a location

Indeed Marktplaats.nl seems like the place to look for a second-hand device, I'll take a look  [smile]

I did find a site where they rented out Festools, but I'll have to drive 60km to get it so buying my own probably is easier  [big grin]

 

[nickao]

Check out the Makita BO6050J(or the older 6040 if you can get it), possibly you can get that cheaper it is also just as good as the Rotex and the Bosch. One issue is some of the accessories are very expensive.

And yeah if they are the same cost I prefer the Rotex, but guys that want more metal instead of plastic might want the Bosch.

 

[AlexThePalex]

I'm based in the Netherlands, just as you haha, I just noticed my profile didn't contain a location

Indeed Marktplaats.nl seems like the place to look for a second-hand device, I'll take a look  [smile]

I did find a site where they rented out Festools, but I'll have to drive 60km to get it so buying my own probably is easier  [big grin]

I suspected you might be Dutch. Is see there's indeed one website that offers the Rotex for rent. You won't find it with Boels or Bo-Rent though.

There's currently one Rotex more or less new on marktplaats, asks €420. I'd offer 350 and see where that goes. Only deal in person though, and try out the tool when you buy it. Listen how the motor sounds, and check out the pad to make sure it's in good condition.

 

[SS Teach]

Welcome to FOG. I have both the Ro 90 and 150. They both remove material and bring you down to bare wood very quickly. For large surfaces the 150 with a hard pad, a must have, is incredible. The Ro's do have a learning curve, so you should watch YouTube videos on their proper usage. The 150 is a heavy sander so using it on vertical surfaces could get tiresome. You stated you caught the Festool virus, we call it the slippery slope. In the immortal words of George Harrison "it's gonna take money...a whole lotta money ... to do it right". Also to save your lungs dust extraction is a must. Yes they cost, but once you have Festool sanders in your hands and use them with dust extraction, wow.