Affordable alternative to MFS Multi-function routing template

[woodwreck]

PLEASE SEE REVISED AND COMPLETED MEMO "Return to Economical alternative to the Multi Purpose Routing MFS CONCLUSION" IN THIS LISTING

THANK YOU.

 

[CharlesWilson]

It doesn't look like the top of the Festool clamp can get inside any of those channels. How do you plan on fastening it down?

 

[woodwreck]

To the contrary, Charles, they do fit and slide very nicely. (I just went and double checked it).I CHECKED THE WRONG ONE.  However, I prefer to use either two angle flanges like Fstl does, or use C-clamps when convenient, after all there is almost always surplus bar protruding from most opening sizes. The C clamps (or F clamps) have the advantage of swiveling to the sides etc. for more flexibility if desired.

MY ERROR - SEE THE REVISED ITEM ABOVE - THEY FIT 5/16" SLOTS, NOT 1/4".

PLEASE SEE Return to Economical alternative to the Multi Purpose Routing MFS CONCLUSION

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

80/20 is like 20 miles from my house.

 

[woodwreck]

Since you make no mention, I guess that means you are in Indiana but they have dealers all over the country as well as via their web site shown  - or find local dealer(s)  at the web site based on your zip code. I have three dealers and found that level of service between dealers varies significantly depending on how incidental or primary it is a portion of the dealer's main business  : - my supplier is apparently 99% involved and WOW what service.  ;D

 

[GPowers]

The multi grove T track is also available form Rockler.

 

[greg mann]

80/20 is like 20 miles from my house.

Well, it's like 80 from mine.  ;D

 

[woodwreck]

The multi grove T track is also available form Rockler.

OK,  ???  but In one size only and the necessary threaded fitting  milled in is not available, useless without it, and pricey.

 

[Qwas]

Woodwreck, I'm interested in seeing what you have done. I was looking at this avenue at one time also. I got busy and side track and haven't been able to get back to it.

The 40-8020 would be ideal if it had a groove in the bottom. The 40-4080 series fits the Festool quick clamps nicely.

[attachthumb=1]

I experimented with a plastic base on the router and using some 10-2099 to hold the base into the groove. It still had just a hair of slop as I recall.

[attachthumb=2]

If you put the 4080 down on its side, you can use the Festool router rail guide on 3/4 inch stock.

[attachthumb=3]

 

[JohnDistai]

I think I may have found a use for my damaged MFT rail...thanks!

 

[woodwreck]

I wish to correct my expense for the product to $117 plus UPS shipping. But call it $150 v. Festool prices quoted (plus sales tax) and keep in mind my size is 24" x 24" - still a fair amount less IMHO. Pics next week.

WW

 

[woodwreck]

Qwas:

It appears you are using the extrusion(s) for straight/parallel cuts for which there are numerous straight edge guides available - the MFS as we know forms a 4-sided frame for free handing the router against a bushing/bearing. I don't follow what you are building; sorry if I am slow on the uptake.

Woodwreck

 

[Qwas]

Yes, I was starting to experiment with this as an MFS replacement and a straightedge was a good starting point.I figured, get that working, then add 3 more sides.

 

[Kevin Stricker]

Just thought I would mention that the extrusion is only a part of the MFS.  You also get several other parts that are necessary for template and trammel work.  Clamping flanges, tilt protector, circle routing insert, pivot point, and hex head driver to be specific.

It would be interesting to see if those profiles are compatible with the MFS profiles. I think the metric graduations are more important than you may think though for quick adjustment and to verify square. 

I'd love to see your setup and know if your rails come cut perfectly square.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Just thought I would mention that the extrusion is only a part of the MFS.  You also get several other parts that are necessary for template and trammel work.  Clamping flanges, tilt protector, circle routing insert, pivot point, and hex head driver to be specific.

It would be interesting to see if those profiles are compatible with the MFS profiles. I think the metric graduations are more important than you may think though for quick adjustment and to verify square. 

Exactly Kevin. You're getting way more for your money than just a few profiles. Don't screw around with a makeshift setup if you're serious about this type of template routing, spend the extra money. 

 

[woodwreck]

Kevin and Brice
Gentlemen:

My thanks to Kevin for the succinct comments which in benefit of hindsight prompt me to both answer and explain something not readily apparent in my partly facetious OP.

First, let me say I abhor the frequent blindly flaming responses of others to Festool price points. As the owner of 4 or 5 Ftl sanders, Domino, Kapex, and more, I separate myself from that bent. Also, as a 35 year former indentured servant of the American industrial enterprise's work smarter not harder philosophy, aka "Faster, Easier, Smarter," I am an unrepentant advocate of that point of view.

Having seen the light on all that hardware mentioned, I recognize the value, but to every generality there is an exception and the price point on the MFS  IMHO is that exception, prompting my partly facetious comments. particularly to the two limited sizes stated. Note that mine is arbitrarily 24" which would be roughly yet $280 additional for MFS (e.g. 2 - 492 723 extensions).

If I were using it for a livelihood and capitalizing the expense I would feel differently. As to the nifty scribed ruler, yes convenient, but NO on the metric since I am not as yet metricized. To the contrary it is more a nuisance to setting, but is helpful just to make matching sides, not necessary with this extrusion.

No, it is not necessary for square, "...to see if the rails come cut perfectly square..." as the extrusion is so solid; see the 8020 or completive links provided to see the magnitude of what they provide. Frankly they exceed Festool in structural capability.

"It would be interesting to see those profiles..."  (Kevin).  A detailed, dimensioned cross section was provided in the original post (OP).

Speaking of which, IIRC it is Brice's outstanding manual on the MFS product that cautions against the possibility of stripping connecting screws; the 8020 connectors are made for hard duty, pics to follow or see their link in the IP. Not a problem.

But, I believe some objectivity is in order, to wit...

"Just thought I would mention that the extrusion is only a part of the MFS.  You also get several other parts that are necessary for template and trammel work.  Clamping flanges, tilt protector, circle routing insert, pivot point, and hex head driver to be specific." (Kevin)
- Clamping flanges are indispensible, I agree, so much so that I did not feel they warranted discussion, in sliding in any of the 8 T-slots of my extrusion, perhaps slightly more flexible than the MFS;
- tilt protector ? this is pretty mundane, already on hand, little more than a block screwed into one the 3rd sub base mounting screw and agreed also;
- circle routing insert, pivot point, and hex head driver to be specific ? I prefer to use the Jasper Circle jig with pivot point and preset 1/16? intervals over the idea of trying to rotate the unwieldy entire MFS frame about its pivot point.
   Frankly, I think Festool recognized the circle opportunity and forced the product to fit the need. And, the hex head driver is simply a $5 hardware store item already on hand.

"Exactly Kevin. You're getting way more for your money than just a few profiles. Don't screw around with a makeshift setup if you're serious about this type of template routing, spend the extra money." (Brice)

While I admire Brice's expertise and manuals which I consulted in depth before going this route incidentally, the remark does not apply to this product and is apparently a result of of unfamiliarity with the product. This is no "makeshift product."

I appreciate Brice's efforts to support Festool at all cost, but I believe a little truth in lending is in order. I admire Festool, but feel a recognition of possible shortcoming is in order particularly when your involvement holds a strong vested interest in the product which should always be disclosed.

I have used these extrusions before to build my own MFT but that is another topic for another day.

Regards gentlemen, thanks,

Woodwreck

 

[JohnDistai]

Crap!  I have to look up some of your GRE words in the dictionary!

 

[Brice Burrell]

....Speaking of which, IIRC it is Brice's outstanding manual on the MFS product that cautions against the possibility of stripping connecting screws; the 8020 connectors are made for hard duty, pics to follow or see their link in the IP. Not a problem......

Woodwreck, this isn't actually what I said. I referring to the MFS profiles being used for an unintended application, and there is the possibility of stripping the hardware if one tried to reinstall the hardware incorrectly. Under normal use there is little or no chance of stripping the connecting hardware.    

....."Exactly Kevin. You're getting way more for your money than just a few profiles. Don't screw around with a makeshift setup if you're serious about this type of template routing, spend the extra money." (Brice)

While I admire Brice's expertise and manuals which I consulted in depth before going this route incidentally, the remark does not apply to this product and is apparently a result of of unfamiliarity with the product. This is no "makeshift product."

I appreciate Brice's efforts to support Festool at all cost, but I believe a little truth in lending is in order. I admire Festool, but feel a recognition of possible shortcoming is in order particularly when your involvement holds a strong vested interest in the product which should always be disclosed.

I have used these extrusions before to build my own MFT but that is another topic for another day.

Regards gentlemen, thanks,

Woodwreck

Alright, I'm not sure what to say here. You seem to be taking a very cynical view on this. If you look at the review section here you'll find my users guide (review) of the MFS. You should also find in that thread, at the bottom of my first post, in bold font, the following statement:    
"In the interests of full disclosure, this tool was provided by Festool for review purposes."

Is that not disclosure? As for any financial gain from that users guide/review, there wasn't any. While I did receive the MFS sets for free, I can assure you I invested far, far more of my time writing the guide than the MFS sets cost.

Looking back, I could have worded my reply differently. I understand now you must have felt like my comments were a personal attack on your ideas, I'm sorry for that. They certainly weren't meant to be. Still, your post questions my integrity, and while you have every right to do so, doing it publicly is insulting (especially when you have your facts wrong.)

Furthermore, I have looked into the 8020 profiles as an MFS alternative. I found them to be less suitable and not able to provide as good a value as the MFS. I'm not alone here, others on this forum have looked at and passed on the 8020 profiles. I'm not suggesting the 8020 profiles can't be made to work, I'm sure they can be. I am looking forward to see what you have come up with.            

 

[woodwreck]

Woodwreck, this isn't actually what I said. I referring to the MFS profiles being used for an unintended application, and there is the possibility of stripping the hardware if one tried to reinstall the hardware incorrectly. Under normal use there is little or no chance of stripping the connecting hardware.   

That is more or less my understanding but I was trying to say I see no chance of the problem in the 8020 product; after some actual use, I might discover differently. I apologize for any unintended personal offense.

FOLLOWING CAPS ARE FOR CLARITY ONLY IN RESPONSE

You seem to be taking a very cynical view on this. If you look at the review section here you'll find my users guide (review) of the MFS. You should also find in that thread, at the bottom of my first post, in bold font, the following statement:   
"In the interests of full disclosure, this tool was provided by Festool for review purposes."

Is that not disclosure? NOT TO MY UNDERSTANDING. FOR THE LOAN OF THE TOOL IN SOME OTHER DOCUMENT, BUT THAT IS BOTH PERIPHERAL AND NOT HERE. As for any financial gain from that users guide/review, there wasn't any. I AM SORRY THAT WASN'T CLEAR, TO ME AT LEAST - YOUR EXCELLENT PUBLICATIONS LEAVE, IN MY MIND AT LEAST, THE CLEAR AND  FIRM IMPRESSION THAT THEY ARE WRITTEN AS A COMPENSATED CONTRACTOR OR EMPLOYEE OF FESTOOL, ON BEHALF OF FESTOOL, PARTICULARLY GIVEN THE INCLUDED USE OF PHOTOS AND PRESUMABLY COPYRIGHTED FESTOOL ITEMS While I did receive the MFS sets for free, I can assure you I invested far, far more of my time writing the guide than the MFS sets cost. I CAN CERTAINLY SEE THAT, AGREED.

BRICE, I WOULD RESPECTFULLY SUGGEST THAT A BRIEF DISCLAIMER, A "PROPRIETARY NOTICE" OR SIMILAR TERMINOLOGY THAT SAYS "(YOU) HAVE NO AFFILIATION WITH OR INTEREST IN..." ETC OR WORDS TO SUCH EFFECT ON EVRY PUB. I JUST WENT TO YOUR MANUAL, PAGE "ABOUT" AND FOUND IT HIGHLY INFORMATIVE ABOUT YOU, HIGHLY PERSONABLE, BUT ONLY FURTHER SUPPORTING THE IMPRESSION I HAD GAINED, SAYING NOTHING ABOUT POSSIBLE AFFILIATION.

Looking back, I could have worded my reply differently. YES, AND LIKEWISE, I LEAVE IT AT THAT.  I understand now you must have felt like my comments were a personal attack on your ideas, I'm sorry for that. They certainly weren't meant to be. Still, your post questions my integrity, and while you have every right to do so, doing it publicly is insulting (especially when you have your facts wrong.) I MEANT NOT TO QUESTION INTEGRITY BUT WHAT I VIEWED AS CLEAR UNDERSTANDABLE  PERSONAL AND PROFESSIONAL FAVORITISM FOR THE PRODUCT WHICH I ALSO FORM FROM TIME TO TIME AND TRY TO DISTINGUISH. I TAKE THIS OPPORTUNITY TO HOPEFULLY JOIN IN CLEARING UP ANY UNINTENDED CONCLUSIONS TO OTHER FORUMITES.

Furthermore, I have looked into the 8020 profiles as an MFS alternative. I found them to be less suitable and not able to provide as good a value as the MFS. I'm not alone here, others on this forum have looked at and passed on the 8020 profiles. I'm not suggesting the 8020 profiles can't be made to work, I'm sure they can be. I am looking forward to see what you have come up with.           

GIVE ME A WEEK OR TWO TO TRY IT OUT AND LET'S LOOK AT IT OBJECTIVELY THEN. THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND INTEREST.

Woodwreck

 

[harry_]

[popcorn]