An MFT ceiling

[Packard]

At a recently remodeled McDonalds, the ceiling panels appear to be 5/4” MDF, 2 feet x 4 feet.

Though I think working above your head, even with a Festool track saw and the MFT panels, might might be tiresome.

The AC vents appear to be milled directly into the panels, though the center diffuser panel appears to be of thinner gage MDF.

 

[Cheese]

I'd imagine there are highly absorptive acoustical panels behind the MDF.

 

[Packard]

The rest of the restaurant has jet-black acoustical ceiling tiles.

There is generally about 2 feet of dead space above the ceiling tiles.  I would think that the space above the MFT ceiling tiles would be sufficient to kill sound reflections.  More than half of the reflections would bounce back up after hitting the solid part of the panels.

I did a google search trying to find out more about that MFT ceiling tile.  I did find that it had made its way to a McDonalds (Pushkin Square, Moscow) in Russia.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

It would have been nice of whoever designed that to have considered the size of those light fixtures a little more  [blink] The flanges overhanging into the next row of holes is offensive to my sensibilities.  [big grin]

Might trigger some Trypophobia too, though the holes might not be close enough together for that.

 

[squall_line]

It would have been nice of whoever designed that to have considered the size of those light fixtures a little more  [blink] The flanges overhanging into the next row of holes is offensive to my sensibilities.  [big grin]

Might trigger some Trypophobia too, though the holes might not be close enough together for that.

The fact that none of the rectangular light fixtures are mounted square in their hole is almost more offensive.

I mean, honestly, doesn't anyone take pride in their work any more?

 

[Crazyraceguy]

The fact that none of the rectangular light fixtures are mounted square in their hole is almost more offensive.

I mean, honestly, doesn't anyone take pride in their work any more?

Agreed, though in pics like this, I generally chalk that up to parallax and give the benefit of the doubt.
I know I have posted some pics myself that seem like that too. It's not crooked on mine, but I am rather critical of my own work. Plus, most of mine are progress pics that are not 100% secured in most cases, having to be shipped.

That last one shows the trim stretch-wrapped in place and the Dominos were not cut yet either.  [unsure]

 

[rvieceli]

those panels appear to be an Armstrong suspended metal panel system. Here's a link to the brochure:
https://www.armstrongceilings.com/commercial/en/articles/perforated-metal-ceiling.html

Reasonably certain those rectangular fixtures with the 2 light heads are probably clip ins and can shift a bit when being cleaned etc.

Ron

 

[Packard]

I’ve been buying my coffee from McDs ever since Starbucks screwed up their coffee with that new, automated Clover brewing system.

I’ve been in that McDs at least a dozen times, and this morning was the first time I noticed the MFT ceiling tiles.

I would guess that people frequently don’t notice.

I am reminded of the TGIG bar/restaurants in the 1980s.  They had a lower ceiling height in the bar area and that ceiling was a pressed tin tile.  The increase in the noise levels in the bar area was very significant (and stupid, in my opinion).  I would have like to speak to the interior designer of those bars.

(And that does not include the disrespect the designer paid to the dead animists mounted on the walls.  The taxidermy was festooned with bric-a-brac.)

I just Googled TGIF bar area, and the tin ceilings are still in, but the stuffed animals are out apparently. (And a lot of the restaurants are closing.)

Thought the one near my house on Long Island had the bar area accessed by climbing two or three steps.  So the ceiling was relatively lower to the patrons, and there was an increased chance that the drinkers would fall when leaving the bar area.  Stairs and drinking do not play well together.

 

[mino]

I'd imagine there are highly absorptive acoustical panels behind the MDF.

The "holy" MDF panels should be a pretty good absorber themselves. They certainly will not resonate like plywood would. Makes me thinking that getting the Parf system and making a 48 mm centers hexagonal ceiling at our appartment. It can be made pretty shallow and some attenuation can be futher achieved with thin acoustic foam behind the panels. Hmm. Probably can get away with unde 50 mm total height loss which would be great.

In our old office we had a bunch of cabinets used as space dividers for the open space. The MDF doors were partial-cut every 20 mm or so with the cuts being complete at the front and interrupted at the back to give the panels some but very limited structural rigidity.

We did not realize this feature (thought it was just easthetic) until buying a bunch of these for shop use last year. We eventually used the door panels as "tiles" for a noise-attenuation drywall structure. With the weight of the MDF combined with this artificial structural weakness preventing resonance, it works surprisingly well.

 

[Sparktrician]

Though I think working above your head, even with a Festool track saw and the MFT panels, might might be tiresome.

Check with TSO.  Hans may have some dogs that hold things like track saws from falling on your head or into your coffee cup...  [big grin]

 

[Cheese]

Check with TSO.  Hans may have some dogs that hold things like track saws from falling on your head or into your coffee cup...  [big grin]

[scratch chin]

[thumbs up]

 

[Packard]

those panels appear to be an Armstrong suspended metal panel system. Here's a link to the brochure:
https://www.armstrongceilings.com/commercial/en/articles/perforated-metal-ceiling.html

Reasonably certain those rectangular fixtures with the 2 light heads are probably clip ins and can shift a bit when being cleaned etc.

Ron

I looked at the Armstrong offerings, and I see the resemblance, but the panels definitely appeared to be about 1-1/4” thick, and the air ducts for the air conditioning looked like machined MDF, though it could be machined plastic.  Whatever it was, it would have to be fire resistant. Do they make fire resistant MDF?

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

There is fire-rated plywood, and exterior-rated MDF, so I'd have to think there's a fire-rated MDF product out there in the world. And, to be clear, it may not be called out as "Fire Rated MDF", it may go by a trade name or something not immediately obvious, such as "Acme Fiber Panel 4682 with Zirbon-52 Treatment".....

 

[Packard]

I enlarged the image below.  What I previously thought was machining marks on the duct, now appears to be formed high pressure laminate, the same laminate that is used on the tables.

There is no obvious giveaways as to whether the entire panel is 5/4” thick or if only the edges are. 

The tables are 1-3/4” thick with an apparently 3/4” thick substrate.  The edgebanding is exceptionally thick, at about 0.100” to 0.120” (I’m measuring with a small ruler.)

When I stand directly under the panels, I can see that these are blind holes and only about 1/8” deep. Exposed is a coarse looking substrate that is matte black.

My new guess is that this is high pressure laminate that has been laminated onto some sort of sound absorbing substrate.

I am curious as to why they thought that the added expense of these panels was worth the money.

The appearance of the ceiling panels definitely matches the tables.  There is a significant difference in lighting, so the images do not match as well as they do in real life.

Note:  This is the same photo as above.  I have used the editing feature to make it show more nearly as it had in person.

 

[woodferret]

What should intrigue you more is why they chose base-muffling large holes with likely packed rockwool instead of the usual higher-pitch smaller holes typically found in restaurants.

Either way, cost of the panels is minimal if it's LPL/TFL (since it's on the ceiling and not a wear surface).

You can also tell from the non-continuous grain that the curved vent is a separate laminated part, likely just MDF. 

As for the 'thick' edge banding on the table, TFL/HPL providers have some pretty honking PVC/ABS edge treatments up to 3mm.

 

[Packard]

So we should stop planning on stealing these panels as they will not work as MTF table tops? 

Disappointing.

 

[squall_line]

So we should stop planning on stealing these panels as they will not work as MTF table tops? 

Disappointing.

If you have a home theatre or other need for acoustic panels, they'd be worth taking?

Also, I'm a bit surprised to see the new look on the edgebanding.  Most of the other interior design updates to McDonalds I've seen lately have had thick fake Baltic Birch edgebanding on the tables.

 

[woodferret]

...so I'd have to think there's a fire-rated MDF product out there in the world. And, to be clear, it may not be called out as "Fire Rated MDF"...

Medite made it easy.  Medite FR - Class A(1)  Uniboard also makes one and it's labelled FR so I guess that's probably what they've settled on - which is nice.

 

[Packard]

...so I'd have to think there's a fire-rated MDF product out there in the world. And, to be clear, it may not be called out as "Fire Rated MDF"...

Medite made it easy.  Medite FR - Class A(1)  Uniboard also makes one and it's labelled FR so I guess that's probably what they've settled on - which is nice.

Never take the fire rating at face value. 

A little over 50 years ago I was selling SIPs (structural insulated panels).  I was selling structural insulated panels before they had a term for them.

The panels I was selling had a honeycomb core bonded to an interior aluminum skin and an exterior aluminum skin.  It depended on the dead air space in the honeycomb for the insulation value. 

Our panels had a UL fire rating and a BOCA fire rating.

Our customers bought the panels and cut them to size and assembled them with special aluminum extrusions.

Our competitor’s panels had a wooden frame work and foam filler for insulation.  It also had a UL fire rating, but a different one than we had.

I was driving on Long Island once and saw a building with a huge sign that said “UL”.  I went in and asked if there was an engineer who could explain the difference between our UL fire rating and out competitor’s UL fire rating.

Our competitor’s fire rating said that it was self-extinguishing in horizontal applications.  That is, if you withdrew the source of the flame and the panel was horizontal, the resulting flame would self-extinguish.

It was not self-extinguishing for vertical panels.

Our panels were self-extinguishing for both vertical and horizontal situations.

The reality was that our panels would self-extinguish in wall and ceiling applications.

Our competitor’s panels would merrily burn in walls all the way to the top.

Both could combust. 

I think most people assume that if something is “fire rated”, that it means it cannot catch fire and cannot support a fire. That is not true.

Also, most manufacturers test when the product is still “green”, that is, that it is still laden with moisture.

It has been a very long time, but as I recall, a double wall made from cinder block will have a 2 hour fire rating.  That is, if there is a fire on one side of the wall, items on the other side will not combust for at least 2 hours.

But that is for “green” cinderblocks.  Cinderblocks shed moisture over time and a fully dried cinderblock wall can have a fire rating substantially lower than 2 hours.

 

[Packard]

I attempted a color correction in the ceiling photo above and I have posted it to the earlier post (#13).

By increasing the exposure, it more nearly matches the table laminate.  I will show it below also.