Attaching Face Frames w/Domino -->> Advice Needed

[mr_hockey]

I've used my Domino a couple of times for various project (i.e. building doors, attaching legs to rails...)

I'm now building some book shelves and need some advise & tips/tricks for face frames... specifically attaching the face frame to the plywood sides.

With the Domino being soooo accurate I'm concerned because my face frames are never exactly the same size as the carcase (I usually trim the frame face with a flush bit on my router after being attached to the carcase)

Any hints/tips ??? ??? ???

Thanks

 

[Dave Rudy]

If you index from the inside instead of the face frame, it should flush up to the inside of the cabinet.  Whether the excess on the outside is 1/8 or 1/4 should make no difference. . .or did I misunderstand the question?

 

[mr_hockey]

If you index from the inside instead of the face frame, it should flush up to the inside of the cabinet.  Whether the excess on the outside is 1/8 or 1/4 should make no difference. . .or did I misunderstand the question?

I don't think that will work because the face frame 2 1/8" wide.???

And I want the outside of the face frame to be flush with the outside of the carcase (actually the face frame will be slightly proud because the frame is about 1/8" bigger than the carcase)

 

[Dave Rudy]

I guess I dont understand the question -- will the finished face frame be flush with the plywood on the inside of the cabinet, the outside of hte cabinet, or will it overhang on both sides?

When you said you used a flush trim bit I assumed you ended up with the face frame flush on the inside.

 

[mr_hockey]

I guess I dont understand the question -- will the finished face frame be flush with the plywood on the inside of the cabinet, the outside of hte cabinet, or will it overhang on both sides?

When you said you used a flush trim bit I assumed you ended up with the face frame flush on the inside.

The outside of the face frame will be flush with the outside of the carcase (after I rout it flush... I built the frame about 1/8" bigger than the the carcase)

Does that make sense?

 

[Eli]

It does make sense. Listen to Dave. Can't be flush outside until you trim it, so index inside.

 

[eweber]

Are you planning on having the face frame overhang both inside and outside before you trim it outside? And are you in this situation on all four sides ?

If this is the case it is going to be challenging to use the domino. You won't be able to reference with the fence easily unless you do some math and play with the height adjustment.

Note that I don't think dominos or biscuits are needed for strenght on a face frame. They are handy for aligning everything but glue and tons of clamps alone should provide enough strength.

Emmanuel

 

[Chuck Kiser]

Unless you are just trying to find the most uses for your Domino, I would stay with pocket hole joinery. Or, good, old fashioned glue and clamps.

 

[Jerry Work]

A bit unusual but one way to do this easily is to install the face frame components to the plywood box individally.  Install the stiles (the upright members) first using Dominos to create a flush outter edge.  Then mark and cut the rails (horizontal members) to fit and use the Domino to create a flush outter edge on those as well.  The plywood box has all the strength so the face frame just comes along for the visual ride and to keep the outside (free) edges of the plywood straight.  Make sure your box has nice square corners and the joints will be tight so long as you loose your measuring tape and work by marking the pieces off of the carcas itself.  Set the Domino fence to half the plywood thickness and use the fence against the outside of the box and the outside edge of the face frame to perfectly aling those surfaces with no measuring.  One idea anyway.

Jerry

 

[Brian Livingstone]

Hi,

Here is how I build a cabinet.  Build the face frame first.  Using solid wood, I use a 6 mm domino.  On one mortise, I use the tight setting, on the opposite loose.  I get a nice square face frame. 

Once the face frame is built, I then build the carcase.  I use 5 mm dominos, every 5 or 6 inches.  I use the pencil mark method (draw a line) across both boards.  I use a tight setting on the face frame, and loose on the carcase.  I don't do any kind of offset.  The boards line up nice and tight- no need for the flush trim router bit- the boards are nearly perfectly flush.  I build the carcase around the face frame. 

I am partial to inset doors.  For the bottom I set the domino for 16 mm on the face frame and 28 mm on the shelf (I domino in a 1 inch or so, piece of hardwood onto the ply, so there is no exposed edge).  This method gives me a perfect offset (1/4 inch or so, where the door then meets the edge of the shelf, very pro. 

Domino in the bottom of the carcase to the sides, domino in a front and back stretcher and lo and behold, you have a cabinet.  Oh yeah, I am finishing up a wet bar (the size of a small kitchen), and did not use any toe kicks.  Having done this, I would have to say the toe kick is overrated.

I love building cabinets with this method.  The ability to dry fit the parts together is a real benefit. 

I hope this is clear, LOVE the Domino !

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Brian,

All is clear to me until your description of how to use the Domino machine for inset doors.  You begin writing about the doors, then switch to discussing the shelves.  Have you any photos illustrating how you set up for the doors?

Dave R.

 

[Eli]

If you're putting up photos, I'd like to see the toekick/lack thereof.....

 

[Dixon Peer]

Omigod, this thing is so confusing.  You can't index from two surfaces that won't be aligned after assembly unless you use some kind of shim or block to "fool" the Domino or reset the machine to make up for the differences in height of the two surfaces.  Perhaps I'm missing something here; if so would someone explain.

 

[mr_hockey]

Omigod, this thing is so confusing.  You can't index from two surfaces that won't be aligned after assembly unless you use some kind of shim or block to "fool" the Domino or reset the machine to make up for the differences in height of the two surfaces.  Perhaps I'm missing something here; if so would someone explain.

Thank you 

I couldn't have said it better...

I suspended this would be the case  :'(

So I guess I will have to place a shim under the fence OR move the fence when I cut the face frame to compensate for the slight overhang of the oversized face frame.

 

[clintholeman]

Just set the cut depth about 0.5 mm deeper when you cut the mortise on the backside of the face frames to account for the small proud "overhang".  When you cut the mortises in the carcase, take the extra 0.5 mm out.  Test on some scrap just to make sure you've got the depth right and domino away! ;D  The whole set up, including testing, should only take a minute or two.  I usually use the wider settings on the carcase to make it easy to square up the FF on the carcase.

One potential issue.  When you build the FF's and carcases that way, you get used to handling them by the FF - OK if the wood is strong enough.  Not ok if it isn't... yep, that's personal experience talking...

 

[Brian Livingstone]

Hello,

I am glad Clint a.k.a., "the Master" responded as I picked up a lot of my method from him and his very helpful website.  Here is how I account for the offset in hopefully clearer terms. 

First however, if one were joining two 3/4 inch boards, one would set the fence at say 20 mm, and plunge mating mortises with the fence set at an equal height for both mortises, right ? 

In the case of inset doors (i.e. the hallmark of fine cabinetry), I set the fence to 16 mm, and plunge the mortise on the marked pencil line on the back of the face frame.  This mortise is now comparatively a little high on the face frame. 

On the shelf of the carcase, I set the fence to 28 mm, and plunge the mortise on the mating pencil line.  The mating mortise on the carcase shelf is now a little low.  When I join the bottom of the carcase (again building the carcase around the face frame), I have a perfect 1/4 inch or so reveal (or offset), suitable for inset doors.  Easy to do, perfect results, no shims, or anything else required to the Domino.

Thanks.

P.S. Love the DOMINO !