Automation simplified

rmwarren · Mar 16, 2024

The video is unrelated to woodworking however it struck me that we may be reaching a point where automated workshop machines and processes are within the grasp of many more small businesses. The setup process is the important aspect IMO.

This machine let's a small business hire unskilled labor and have them be productive immediately, just loading/unloading the machine after an hour of training. Also changing setups to run different operations should take minutes. It's brilliant.

What are the analogous situations in a small woodworking business?

RMW

woodferret · Mar 16, 2024

Richard/RMW said:
What are the analogous situations in a small woodworking business?

Mosaik? It seems pretty hand-held compared to full on programming.l

WillAdams · Mar 16, 2024

Well, I have a side gig doing support for CNC machines, which are essentially robots which move a router/spindle.

To a great extent the CAD and CAM software will allow one to make cuts which would previously require custom tooling, and multiple fixtures/jigs.

The nice thing is it's possible to package up the programming with a nice interface:
https://seasick.github.io/openscad-web-gui/?https://raw.githubusercontent.com/WillAdams/Design_Into_3D/master/openscadwebgui/Impossible_Dovetail_Box.scad

which is easily set up to cut on a CNC:

and with a bit of cleaning up and hardware installation:

yields a nice result:

With much less effort than the ones I made w/ saw and chisels when I was younger.

PaulMarcel · Mar 16, 2024

That weld-bot was really cool. It reminds me a bit of a bot I saw Hyperice use to assemble percussion massage guns. Was pretty fascinating and looks the same except instead of a torch at the end, it had fingers. They were a small outfit when they started with it and now the assembly room has a bunch of similar bot cabinets on wheels lined up.

rmwarren · Mar 17, 2024

What intrigued me most is how simple and flexible the setup process appears. Envision a small shop producing multiple products. Someone with the skills can create the jig, iron out the process and then quickly train an unskilled worker to batch them out. Run a batch of X hundred of part/component A, then swap over and run a batch of component B and so on.

Even the skilled worker wouldn't need to have programming expertise, and the operator doesn't need to have welding skills.

RMW

Steve1 · Mar 17, 2024

Yes, the set up looks very fast.

The big advancement in robots in the past couple of decades is the "collaborative" robot (note title of video), that can safely work in the vicinity of humans.

Previously, if you got in between a robot and where it was trying to go, it wasn't going to stop. So typically enclosed in a full perimeter cage, safety switches on access doors, OSHA codes ad infinitum, etc

rmwarren · Mar 17, 2024

Steve1 said:
Yes, the set up looks very fast.

The big advancement in robots in the past couple of decades is the "collaborative" robot (note title of video), that can safely work in the vicinity of humans.

Previously, if you got in between a robot and where it was trying to go, it wasn't going to stop. So typically enclosed in a full perimeter cage, safety switches on access doors, OSHA codes ad infinitum, etc

I'd wondered about the lack of mention of safety in the video. Elsewhere I've seen the robot arm stopping if someone broke a sensor plane, does the collaborative moniker somehow eliminate the need for this?

RMW

WillAdams · Mar 17, 2024

Classic story on the need for guards would be that of an industrial robot re-purposed to play chess --- when a child who was playing it moved a piece to adjust its positioning after making their move the robot reached out and broke their finger:
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2...eaks-finger-of-seven-year-old-opponent-moscow

Cheese · Mar 17, 2024

Richard/RMW said:
I'd wondered about the lack of mention of safety in the video. Elsewhere I've seen the robot arm stopping if someone broke a sensor plane, does the collaborative moniker somehow eliminate the need for this?

RMW

I'm thinking a vision system or maybe something similar to what Format, Felder or Altendorf use.

smorgasbord · Mar 17, 2024

WillAdams said:
The nice thing is it's possible to package up the programming with a nice interface...

What software are you using to model this? I'm particularly interested in the dovetail bit compatibility. Is it Fusion 360 or Carbide Create, or something else?

WillAdams · Mar 17, 2024

I first modeled in BlockSCAD:
https://www.blockscad3d.com/community/projects/1424448

then downloaded the OpenSCAD code, adjusted it a bit and uploaded it to Github so that it could be paired with a special version of OpenSCAD which works in a browser so that this link would work:
https://seasick.github.io/openscad-web-gui/?https://raw.githubusercontent.com/WillAdams/Design_Into_3D/master/openscadwebgui/Impossible_Dovetail_Box.scad

Then I wrote out a DXF and imported that into Carbide Create and made toolpaths as described at:
https://community.carbide3d.com/t/how-to-do-this-secret-box-on-a-cnc/46016/16

Unfortunately, Carbide Create can't model undercuts, hence my using Block/OpenSCAD, and then using the Keyhole toolpath for the Dovetail tool.

I've been working on a system which can model undercuts:
https://github.com/WillAdams/gcodepreview

Hopefully I'll get back to it presently --- the big thing it needs is support for arcs, then I need to up my math game so that I can add support for Bézier curves.

smorgasbord · Mar 17, 2024

WillAdams said:
I first modeled in BlockSCAD..
then downloaded the OpenSCAD code, adjusted it a bit and uploaded it to Github so that it could be paired with a special version of OpenSCAD which works in a browser so that this link would work…
Then I wrote out a DXF and imported that into Carbide Create…

Wow, that’s about 5 steps more than I’m willing to take. But, color me impressed.

WillAdams · Mar 17, 2024

The nice thing is, since this has been done, you can simplify it down to:

- open the link:
https://seasick.github.io/openscad-web-gui/?https://raw.githubusercontent.com/WillAdams/Design_Into_3D/master/openscadwebgui/Impossible_Dovetail_Box.scad

- adjust the dimensions and parameters as desired, then set to make a DXF and export that

- import the DXF into Carbide Create

- set up toolpaths

- cut

smorgasbord · Mar 17, 2024

WillAdams said:
The nice thing is, since this has been done, you can simplify it down to...

Except I'm looking to make something else that has dovetailed keyways, not that specific box. I'll probably work within Fusion360 and either figure out how to get it to work, or else model it in Fusion with a straight bit and tweak things until I get a toolpath that works cheating the actual production with the dovetail bit.

Anyone know where to get dovetail bits with a 30º or even 45º angle? I don't need more than 5mm depth of cut.

WillAdams · Mar 17, 2024

The Keyhole toolpath works well for that.

Something like:
https://www.woodline.com/products/45-wall-bracket-dovetail

EDIT: Also, if you'll let me know the dimensions and parameters you want I'll gladly set up a file which will do a 3D preview and add support for a keyhole toolpath for Carbide Create.

Steve1 · Mar 18, 2024

Richard/RMW said:
I'd wondered about the lack of mention of safety in the video. Elsewhere I've seen the robot arm stopping if someone broke a sensor plane, does the collaborative moniker somehow eliminate the need for this?

The short answer is yes. These robots will be smaller, less powerful and readily able to detect a collision.
You won't find a collaborative robot to move 70 pound cylinder head castings.

But I believe the proper methodology is to do a risk assessment on the particular application where the robot will be used.