Belt sander or big orbital for worktops etc

[Flashman]

I'm getting asked to redo more and more kitchen worktops and table tops. I'm currently struggling with a Mirka Ceros which isn't powerful enough to sand most hardwoods (although works well as a finish sander).
Which would be preferable; a BS75 belt sander with frame; or one of the big orbitals like the RS100?
I've also currently got a RO125 but its not suitable for a perfect finish or quick enough.
I've never owned a belt sander before and quite like the look of it - it could also sharpen tools - I'm a painter,
But would I get a much better finish quicker with the orbital? What was the RS designed for?

Advice needed from you woodworkers.

Thanks
Paul

 

[jmbfestool]

I take it the worktops stay fixed in position.   I wouldnt bother with a belt sander.

One cus they are more awkward to get into places plus don't get up as close to edges as orbital.

Also don't kno bout you but a belt sander is harsh on your back as you have to pull it to stop it riding off and the back and forth motion does me in.    Orbital is easier on your back and you can go any direction you want so you don't have to worry about grain direction either on the worktops.

Rotex 150 and rotex 90 best sanders to remove a lot of material on worktops.  Using high grits and work your way down

 

[AlexThePalex]

If the RO125 can't do it the RS100 won't either. The RS100 is the roughest orbital sander Festool has, but it is no match for the rotary action of a Rotex sander. If you think your RO125 is not up to the task you'll definitely need to get a belt sander.

The points JMB makes are valid of course. No getting into corners with the belt sander.

 

[sgryd]

I haven't tried the RS. But I do have BS75 and RO125. The belt sander with frame is absolutely great for flat work. I wouldn't get anywhere near in flatness with the RO125. If you'll be doing a lot of big flat surfaces you might even want to step up to BS105.

Since you always work with the grain with a belt sander (at least I do..) you'll dig out material in between the fibres. If you don't like this surface you'll have to go over it with orbital. I think you have to see the belt as a flattener and then use whatever is suitable for the finish.

Note:
I'm not very experienced. I offer my thoughts to you not as a professional, but as someone who owns a BS75. I understand this machine is not commonly owned here at F.O.G because of NAINA.

 

[Flashman]

Thanks for the replies. The RO125 can certainly take off material but I want a perfectly flat surface.
I'll discount the belt sander for the moment - I see your point about edges, and possibly try to road-test the half sheet at a dealer.
Am I right in thinking you don't go beyond 180 grit because an over-polished surface wont take oil well?

 

[Alan m]

i have never created an uneven surface (intentionally yes but not accidentally) with my ro150

i think the belt sander would clog faster and gouge into the surface more

i would go with the ro150 to remove the finish and the flat sander to make sure there is no slight uneveness

 

[Deansocial]

Theres no fast solution as you sanding oiled wood. It clogs the paper fast and takes a while to sand.

 

[Laminator]

Are you trying to remove a finish (varnish/lacquer) with the sander?  If so, a belt sander will clog or load up really quickly as well as being apt to dig into the surface.

I use a belt sander extensively in my current  trade and am quite proficient with it. I have refinished furniture in the past and I would not consider using the belt sander on a table surface at all unless it was solid wood and I needed to remove deep cuts or scratches in the surface.

 
I always used chemical or heat to remove the surface finish before sanding so as to be sanding bare wood which works much better than sanding to remove a finish.

 

[Wing79]

I have gotten real good results sanding stair treads and flattening with the RAS 115 with the hard pad installed.  Followed up by the RO 125 and then on to the ETS 150.  This has returned some great results.

 

[Kev]

Nobody suggesting a fine plane over the top surprises me. I would have considered this ... only a little extra work in the corners and it'b be fast. Then a light touch with an orbital.

 

[sgryd]

To set things straight.. Festool's belt sanders are NOT your ordinary belt sanders. They come with a sanding frame which makes it almost impossible to dig into the wood in a "tilted belt sander fashion". If you want really flat and you want to work with hand machines, I doubt that any machine can make it flatter that a belt sander with a sanding frame.

 

[jmbfestool]

To set things straight.. Festool's belt sanders are NOT your ordinary belt sanders. They come with a sanding frame which makes it almost impossible to dig into the wood in a "tilted belt sander fashion". If you want really flat and you want to work with hand machines, I doubt that any machine can make it flatter that a belt sander with a sanding frame.

That's another point why not to buy the belt sander for doing worktops

The frame will keep you even further away from the edges/corners.

I don't know if Paul REMOVES sinks hobs etc from the work tops when sanding but if not a belt sander is even more difficult to use in the awkward places.

Must work on alot of very large kitchens which have very large Worktop space to justify a belt sander.

 

[sgryd]

I didn't see Paul state that he did the tops in place. In that case a belt sander would probably be a bad choice. But if the tops are taken loose, I'd still hold the BS75 or BS105 on top of the list. But it all comes down to how flat you need. I'm a sucker for really flat.

 

[jmbfestool]

I didn't see Paul state that he did the tops in place. In that case a belt sander would probably be a bad choice. But if the tops are taken loose, I'd still hold the BS75 or BS105 on top of the list. But it all comes down to how flat you need. I'm a sucker for really flat.

I'm assuming I don't know.  It's just that removing worktops in my opinion is a bad idea. 

Often impossible with out causing damage to the joints, tiles, up stands and sometimes you can have units sitting on top of worktops. Some times worktops been fitted before wall units where fitted because it was tight fit or a under mount sink attached.  So the wall units would have to be removed or wall sockets. Many other reasons why not to remove the worktops.

If you was removing worktops to sand them you might as well replace them with new ones.

Jmb

 

[Dan1210]

i use a cheap orbital sander to finish my timber worktops, although im sure the rotex would be nicer to use, i can get excellent results going down in grades of paper never needed a fancy sander and definately wouldnt use a belt sander on them.

 

[sgryd]

Makes sense not to remove the tops. I haven't really thought about how to cope with fastened tops.

But I do know this: I've flattened my "fork-dented" oak table with RO125. It was a pleasure going through all the grits and the table came out nice. After buying the BS75 I revisited the table and I can tell you that it was a whole lot easier, booth in terms of speed and outcome (flatness). The table was oiled, but I don't recall the RO125 bogged down less than the belt sander. The belt sander was bogged down a couple of times, but that was solved in two seconds with a piece of raw rubber to clean the belt.

I have done the same thing with MDF coated door blades. After doing this with BS75 I see no point using the R125 other that for the last grits. The BS75 leaves as flat a surface that your eyes hurt

 

[jmbfestool]

Makes sense not to remove the tops. I haven't really thought about how to cope with fastened tops.

But I do know this: I've flattened my "fork-dented" oak table with RO125. It was a pleasure going through all the grits and the table came out nice. After buying the BS75 I revisited the table and I can tell you that it was a whole lot easier, booth in terms of speed and outcome (flatness). The table was oiled, but I don't recall the RO125 bogged down less than the belt sander. The belt sander was bogged down a couple of times, but that was solved in two seconds with a piece of raw rubber to clean the belt.

I have done the same thing with MDF coated door blades. After doing this with BS75 I see no point using the R125 other that for the last grits. The BS75 leaves as flat a surface that your eyes hurt

I agree if you have a tale top or Worktop which is not fixed the belt sander would be the way to go I suppose, it's just the original poster said redo kitchen worktops so im assuming they would be fixed and I'm thinking from in the past when iv sanded worktops in place it can be awkward round corners with tall units etc on smaller kitchens  and a belt sander would be kinda useless.

I would like the bs75 but its alot of money and I hardly ever use my Makita belt sander

 

[Dan1210]

oops missed the "redo" part, not an easy task which ever route you go i guess

 

[Flashman]

Hi all, just an update with a few more details..
The tops will always stay in place due to tiles, sinks, costs, lack of space in Victorian England etc,
Kitchen tops I work on are usually varnished and in poor condition so I need a fairly aggresive option,
Current sanders are RO125, RAS115, DX93, RTS400 and Mirka Ceros, so I can do aggresive but I want
to get very flat over a large area before finishing off with the Ceros.
From your experiences I have pretty much discounted the BS and I'm looking closely at the RS100.
My favourite sander is the RTS - I use it everyday to flatten paint and I feel the RS100 would suit my style of sanding.
The other thing I like is that you can buy pad savers and rolls of Abranet that fit perfectly (115x10m).
My only dilemna now is the difference between the RS100 and the RS100C - they have the same specs, stroke, power but are clearly different. Do you get either in the US?  I'm leaning towards the first one - it looks more of a beast!

Thanks for all the input
Paul

 

[sancho57]

Belt sanders and finish sanding can go wrong in a heart beat. If your sanding in place Rotex is the way to go if they are beat up and you have to take down a lot of wood fast. Otherwise, I would say to remove the tops, and find a cabinent shop with a drum sander and pay the owner to run the tops through the drum sander for ya.

Actually IMO the drum sander would give you the flatest, cleanest surface IMO.