Big Issue

sigmatango

sigmatango

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Joined
May 25, 2015
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82
Hi folks,

I have a pretty serious spat going on with a client and was hoping someone out there might have some advice for me.

I installed a tub surround in an older building earlier this year (7 months ago). It was a bit of a challenge, but the end result looked great. The customer said they were happy, but in the last week had another trade come in and tear out the caulking and recaulk it. The customer did not let me know there was an issue, but now is demanding a full refund plus $150 for "inconvenience", a total of $650. When I asked why they hadn't told me there were issues and had another trade redo the caulking, they said they didn't trust me, and had a cabinet installer do the work instead. Also, they refuse to take my calls or meet in person and will only interact by email. They have made it clear they'd prefer to never see me again.

Going ahead, it seems I have three options.
1- I can refund them the full amount and get them off my case. This seems a bad precedent for the future.
2- I can offer a 50% refund, and see what happens.
3- I can say no , and see what happens.

The customer is very obsessive and controlling, and (I didn't know this) borderline bipolar. I am not sure what will happen if I choose any option.

Any ideas going forward? Do I need a lawyer?
 
Technically since they did not call you with the issue prior to having someone else repairing it, you have no liability or obligation for a refund.  As far as you are concerned, there was never an issue but someone else claimed that there was so there is no way of proving it after the repairs.

Why would they be demanding a full refund instead of a refund for the cost of correcting the issue they claim ?
How is your contract written covering warranties/guarantees?
Can this client hurt your reputation by making claims regarding your work?

After all said and done with all the advice, you are obligated to do the right thing regardless of their personality or your contract.  If you feel you were at fault then take care of the client....
 
I agree.  There is no reason to pay up to them at this point.  They failed to contact you to fix this issue before going to another person.  Trust or not, that is no sane customer.  I would politely tell them that if they had come to you in the first place you would have worked something out and that you are sorry that they can't trust you for some reason.  I would offer a small amount of that money they want in "work credit" and leave it at that.  7 months is a long time to go by as well.  If it was a few weeks, this would be a different story but 7 months is a long time.  I broke ground on my new house 7 months ago and now it is nearly complete... to put things in perspective.

Hope you get it sorted, keep us up to date if you will.

cheers.  Bryan.
 
Hi,

Money always is the easiest way out - if you can spare it without "hurting" yourself or loved ones - do it. Forget about it.

Any form of negotiation, lawyers, claims back and forth will only stress you out and wear you down (probably also the other party, which is not a good thing in conjunction with a disorder) - unless you absolutely love this type of situations and get a kick out of it.

IF the person you are dealing with has a borderline or bi-polar disorder (which are different things) this can also go wrong in a couple of other ways, too. So if only those 650$ get you out safe & sane, pay it. It's absolutely not worth dealing with if not absolutely necessary.

Also think about what your contract says, how you are going to proof your work was OK (Do you make clients sign off on the work?) Because if they don't take your No for an answer and go the legal route, that's whats going to be needed at some point. And while one can ignore E-Mails, letters and calls - and pretend it doesn't wear one down - at one point there might be a court appointment that can't be ignored - IF the client goes through.

Of course I would always offer the 25 - 50% refund first, no need to pay full if this is just a little "scam".

Oh, and it might be wise to inform the client you're doing this cash only and upon signing of a receipt - the receipt should indicate what the refund is for.

Kind regards,
Oliver (not affiliated to the client in question ;) )

 
I wouldn't give them a refund for the work, especially if they wouldn't call you to fix what was wrong.  For them to ask for an inconvienence fee is just plan wrong.  My guess is the person they did call charged them $150.  These people are looking for a freebie after the fact.  If this was my client, maybe I would say you will pay for the caulk repair, just for these people to go away.  But I would ask for copy of the work order or invoice from the person that they had fix.
 
Wooden Skye said:
I wouldn't give them a refund for the work, especially if they wouldn't call you to fix what was wrong.  For them to ask for an inconvienence fee is just plan wrong.  My guess is the person they did call charged them $150.  These people are looking for a freebie after the fact.  If this was my client, maybe I would say you will pay for the caulk repair, just for these people to go away.  But I would ask for copy of the work order or invoice from the person that they had fix.
Click to expand...

Your guess is right. The fellow did charge $150... Thanks for the advice folks. I just managed to get ahold of my lawyer friend. He says that by redoing the work without proof, and without communicating to me before redoing the work, any form of warranty is void. Even if they decide to go to small claims court, filing here costs $250. I think they are trying to shake me down....
 
I'd go with option 3. You weren't given a chance to correct the problem, weren't even informed there was a problem, so in your eyes there was nothing wrong. Call their bluff.
 
Kesco said it best, especially at the end. Do what feels right to you. I tell them no thanks if i felt it was right when I was Finished and they agreed by paying the final invoice.
 
Mort said:
I'd go with option 3. You weren't given a chance to correct the problem, weren't even informed there was a problem, so in your eyes there was nothing wrong. Call their bluff.
Click to expand...

I agree with Mort, go with option #3.  You could even point out that had they contacted you first with the problem, you would have corrected it for free, by re-caulking the bathtub yourself (who gets $150.00 for caulking a tub anyway)?

The fact they did not contact you, but instead subcontracted the project to another tradesman, is their decision.  Personality disorders or not, they are responsible for their own actions.  If anything, the fact they are asking for a full refund, and a $150.00 kicker, is evidence of them having a mental disorder.   
 
They're obviously motivated by money ... there's also potential fraud related to their behaviour as you weren't given the opportunity to assess. Do they have photographic evidence of any issues?

I'd take it up a level .. did you offer a warranty for the work? If you did, was the a process defined for "make good"? As for their "inconvenience" .. they're now causing you inconvenience!!

Ignore such issues as "reputation loss" with this sort of person, you have none anyway with them.

Check your client communication history, quotes, invoices, receipts, etc to ensure they have not come back and if it's all clear, simply declare that they engage you to discuss remediation and therefore you will not provide any form of compensation ... it's a pretty fundamental expectation for a tradesman to have the opportunity to use his own labour time to address issues - what they've done is completely unacceptable in normal practice.

Lastly .. it's usually considered acceptance for work performs if they client has made their final payment and no other form of written agreement is in place - not sure what it's like over there.

There's a 4th option. Deny the legitimacy and tell them that if they want you to engage further you will be charging them $xx per hour for your time and that you believe their action to be potentially fraudulent and will be treating the matter from that basis.
 
I am not in this line of work, but if you do agree on any refund, I would pay it to them with a company check only, and also a written agreement signed by both parties. Even with a signed receipt, a cash payment is a pretty hard thing to prove down the line if needed--

Good luck to you.
 
The weirdest thing just happened. The client emailed me, calling the whole thing off. I'm pretty sure that's not normal....  [tongue] [eek] [blink]
 
Using email is very smart (for both of you) as it provides a record of communications. So you do want to be very careful with what you do write to them in the future. Make sure you don't delete those emails either.

I would not offer any discounts, as this could be construed as some sign of culpability on your part. (Due to the timing, as opposed to if this had occurred right after project completion.)

Even though they are now indicating the issue has been dropped, I would not let my guard down just yet. Keep all records and jot down whatever notes you can think of. From your description, it would not surprise me that they don't come back at you again later.
 
As a regular practice I create an email file for every customer. It helps me to remember what each of us has promised or requested. I often forget about changes I should be charging for that are documented in the emails and I can show why there's charges when questions arise about billing.
 
If you decide to pay for this, I think you should take along a crowbar and rip the stuff out.
 
Altho the customer indicates it is over, he just might be preparing another salvo. If you know an attorney have him craft a letter requesting a formal and binding resolution. So I does not haunt you farther down the road.
 
sigmatango said:
Any ideas going forward? Do I need a lawyer?
Click to expand...

Ignore them, from here on, especially since they 'called it off'. They have nothing except problems with their brain.

In case you get a law case from them, then get a lawyer - should that not happed just never ever deal with them again in any way.
 
It is not a good idea to make a comment about someone's mental state on a public forum. It is a very bad idea when you might become involved in legal proceeding with that person.

Good luck in the long run.
 
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