Biscuit vs Pocket Screw vs Domino...

[Steve R]

Everything has its place. How do you determine which to use?

Dovetails are great but hey… if it is not fine furniture.. where do you draw the line?

The Biscuits are good for light use… 

The Kreg pocket screw system is very fast and secure…

The Domino is also a very powerful connection.

I’m reading many sources and finding that there is no constant answer.

Not thinking visual impact…

What are your thoughts... about…

At what thickness limits do you use each?

At what point do you move from one to the other for more strength?

If time was a consideration what would you use? (on site and need to make it secure but can’t wait for glue to dry)

Please keep in mind that this about situations that don’t show the connection.

Cheers,
Steve

 

[Theshipstore]

Steve    I can say this much about your questions, since I have gotten the Domino I no longer use my biscuit cutter.
            I will say that my cabinet carcase's are stronger and easier to set up because of the domino.
            To work faster I still use my Kreg pocket Tool and place my pocket screws on the rear of my carcase frame work ( out of site is out of mind )
            This is done too assemble faster while waiting for glue drying time..
            So for me the Domino and pocket screw method has saved me time and in the long run money

 

[peter halle]

Pocket screws act as clamps while the glue dries.  Sometimes there is not even the need for glue.  The domino can, as Sal was saying, be used as a locating / alignment tool which might be helpful to some because pocket screws  can cause slight misalignments when fastened.

Peter

 

[Steve R]

Pocket screws act as clamps while the glue dries.  Sometimes there is not even the need for glue.  The domino can, as Sal was saying, be used as a locating / alignment tool which might be helpful to some because pocket screws  can cause slight misalignments when fastened.

Peter

I do understand the misalignment issue and have found ways to clamp that don't allow that to happen.

I guess the yet unanswered question is what are limits of thickness and we have not opened topic to hardwood vs. MDF.

thanks for the reply.

Cheers,
Steve.

 

[extiger]

Waiting in the wings for a few more answers. My Lamello BJ is sitting around, almost new. I'm wondering of a Domino machine is a good option. Home hobbyist.

 

[mishle]

I Don't have a Domino so can't say there.

I sold my biscuit jointer, I found strait glue ups for my self is better.

The pocket hole goes where it is not visible or I plug it depending on the application.

I use 1/2 inch and over for pocket screws if I'm working with 1/4 it gets dado's or like beadboard I nail it to the back

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Waiting in the wings for a few more answers. My Lamello BJ is sitting around, almost new. I'm wondering of a Domino machine is a good option. Home hobbyist.

Hey Extiger!
I have kept my mouth shut so far, as I too am a hobbyist and I think Steve is directing his question toward the pros, who are in a different world from us hobbyists.
For instance, we hobbyists should have time to clamp and let the glue dry for an hour.   For a hobbyist, visual appeal is always important, even beyond that == even though you can't see those screws, you still know they are there.  And lastly, even though we may not be building fine furniture, you want that little thing you build for your grand daughter to last until she is grown up and maybe she will want to pass it on to her kids.

So, here's my two cents.   I never liked biscuits - they aren't accurate enough to ensure precise alignment and they don't add much strength to anything.  I sold my biscuit jointer when I bought the Domino and never regretted it.

As to pocket screws.  I would never use them without glue, and if I'm gluing - I can wait for it to dry, so I don't need pocket screws.  I would never use a screw in MDF, even confirmat.

I'm impressed with Dominoes.  Its easy to use multiple dominoes in one joint to make an incredibly strong joint.  I just built my first chair where all the mortise & tenon joints are dominoes and it is solid.  There's another thread on the board where the poster uses dominoes to joint miters on 12mm MDF - wow!

Dovetails, sure they are great.  I can handcut a pretty decent dovetail.  But the guy who taught me how said that if he were making drawers for his own kitchen cabinets, he would use a dovetail router jig.

Maybe, though, the bottom line for us hobbyists is that we are in it for the enjoyment.  If you enjoy biscuits or pocket screws then why not?  Just have realistic expectations for them.

 

[Mavrik]

I'm a weekend warrior who only has a Domino out of that set of toys.

I haven't found a jointing application that it doesn't work brilliantly with yet, and I also find it one of the easiest, quietest, safest and most fun tools to use.
I can't under-estimate the childish lego block sensation I get as everything just clips together afterwards with those snug, precise fitting domino's.
It gives me a kick every time.

And you don't have that evil  [crying] of items sliding apart as you clamp them with wet glue acting like the perfect lubricant to pull them out of alignment while you tighten up the clamps.

Yes ... we all get turned on by silly things  [big grin]

 

[pugilato]

Different tools, different applications.  I dont think one replaces the others.

 

[sancho57]

I dont have a Domino.

I have a biscit jointer and havent used it in a long time.

Im going to start though. I also have a mini bisit jointer havent used that in a longer while.

Im going to have to start using it to.

I have a Kreg jig, old aluminum one.

I use the heck out of that

 

[builderbob]

I agree with others in this thread that the usage of these tools is situational & also subject to opinion.  I do quite a bit of custom projects for a designer (built-ins, window seats, entertainment centers, etc).  I recently sold my dewalt biscuit joiner on craigslist as it has not been touched for quite some time.  I have been using the Kreg system for many years both in the shop and in the field.  I also purchased the Domino when it first hit the US market.  The Domino really is an amazing tool.  I always felt that biscuits are too loose for any sort of alignment, but they do give you gluing surface.  When I am building any of my aforementioned projects, I use both the Domino and Kreg pocket screws.  The Domi is great for alignment and is very handy when you don't want a visible joint (I know that it was mentioned from the OP that the question was regardless of visibility).  I also have the Kreg foreman and it makes the process FAST.

As far as thickness is concerned, I haven't really found a limit for either the Kreg or Domino.  I recently built a cedar storm door for a client that was 4' wide by 90" tall and 1 1/4" thick.  I couldn't use pocket screws since all points would be visible.  All of the stiles and rails were 5" wide.  I was able to use 4-8mmx50mm at every rail to stile connection.  I made my Domi cuts on one side, flipped the same board over and made cuts over the original so that they were 2 over 2.  Overall, the door used 32 8mm Dominos and is solid as a rock!

[attachimg=1]

Bob

 

[Electric Trim]

If time was a consideration what would you use? (on site and need to make it secure but can’t wait for glue to dry)

Please keep in mind that this about situations that don’t show the connection.

Cheers,
Steve

Sounds like you should be using pocket hole connections in this situation.  I'm about to trim a house that will have pass and butt 1x4 casing with a back band wrapped on all the casing.  I'll definitely be bringing my Kreg Foreman on the job!  We'll bust a nut on those door casings with that bad boy, and they'll be the most durable joint in the house!  Well maybe the dovetail drawers in the cabinets will barely squeeze out a first place prize.

 

[MarkF]

I use pocket screws to act as clamps and reinforcement for critical glued Domino joints.  I also use pocket screws together with unglued Dominos for "Ready To Assemble" joints.

 

[upscale]

Dovetails are great but hey… if it is not fine furniture.. where do you draw the line?
The Biscuits are good for light use… 
The Kreg pocket screw system is very fast and secure…
The Domino is also a very powerful connection.

I rarely use dovetails so my only comment on them is that they are visually beautiful and exceptionally strong when done properly. Their downside is the time needed to incorporate them when compared to the other methods you've mentioned.

Biscuits? My only usage for them was for general alignment purposes where I might need to make some adjustment while gluing something up. Since my Domino can accomplish all of the things that my biscuit joiner could do and much more, my biscuit joiner has been relegated (until I get around to selling it) to an out of reach top shelf somewhere. Pocket screws are fine for quick, fast joints, but they do not have any adjustment capability that one can incorporate with a Domino.

The Domino is in a class of its own. It's relatively fast, very precise and accurate when necessary and stronger in my opinion than all the other jointing methods mentioned above. It really has no competition, at least not in the home market. It's only downside I can see is the initial sticker shock, but that's soon tempered by the realization of what a tremendously capable tool it really is.

 

[gates559]

My opinion is that biscuits are completely useless, You never see them used by any large manufacturers, They use dowels! They fit tighter and are more accurate.

For me, my Kreg Foreman has made me a pile of cash. I will use it every chance I get. I gave my biscuit joiner away a long time ago.
The Domino is good for a higher quality job or places that can be seen. But they are a lot slower than the pocket screws.

I rarely use dovetails, the majority of my clients don't care enough to pay for them. Someday I will buy a dovetail machine and make dovetails standard for my drawers at no additional charge, but that is a couple years away.

 

[Wonderwino]

I have used dominos to make face frames with a pocket screw on the backside, where it is not visible.  The two together make an almost unbreakable joint.

 

[TJ Cornish]

I've come from the home improvement/remodeling side of things, and now that my house is mostly finished (for now anyway), I've been working on finer projects.  It still amazes me how little there is in common between rough woodworking and furniture making.

Anyway, I had a biscuit jointer and used it occasionally, but was frustrated that the alignment wasn't all that great.  I bought a Kreg jig and made a bunch of upper cabinets and face frames with it, but again was frustrated at the difficulty of getting things perfectly aligned, even when clamping sometimes, though I did eventually get there.

I bought the Domino last summer about halfway through the laundryroom project I was making the cabinets for, and fell in love since alignment is so much easier and better.  After I put my first Domino in, I sold my biscuit jointer on Craigslist, and I don't miss it.  I used the Domino to align the cabinets to each other on the wall for installation (no glue), for putting the edging trim on the counter top, and about 75 other projects.

In the heat of the Domino excitement I had big plans to Domino the lower shelves to the walls and to the counter, but found that it isn't all that easy to align a lot of dominos in a large free field with multiple planes to worry about - i.e. nothing much else to index on, and so I did go back to pocket holes for those functions - trying to avoid the "when your only tool is a hammer, everything looks like a nail syndrome".

In summary, I use the Domino whenever I don't need to take it apart later, and when I have good confidence I can align the Dominos without too much risk of screwing up (my lack of skill, not that this is terribly difficult).  It's my preferred jointery technique, and I have been known to re-engineer the project so Domino joints will work better.  I haven't yet done a project where I was worried about the Domino joint not being strong enough, though I suppose there are those situations.

 

[JSands]

>    I never liked biscuits - they aren't accurate enough to ensure precise alignment and they don't add much strength to anything.

                      Sometimes I prefer a little slop, so I can assure a flush surface with clamps...if there was no slop, the slightest mis alignment of the holes would prevent tweaking during clamping...  as they say,  horses for courses.  The one thing often overlooked about standard biscuits is there thinness... at 3.7mm thick, which is considerably thinner than 5mm thick domino, which I think is the thinnest domino...  I was edge joining some 8mm thick boards last week, sure glad I had my biscuit jointer.... 5mm too thick.  I know this is not the norm, but its a classic example of using the ideal tool for the job.  Yes, biscuits offer less strength, but in many cases, mainly edge to edge glue ups, they add more than sufficient strength for the end product, so after you pass the desired strength threshold, who cares....

Dowels assure very precise alignment....I use them for precise set-ups....but in many cases, if I had a domino, I would use it instead, but my dowelmax is quite the tool.  As with most tools Festool makes, if it involves cabinets, bookcases, built ins, etc. , the tool is ideally suited.  But other ww projects fall outside this domain.  So as others have pointed out, all the loose tenon joinery methods have a place, with the domino prob. being the most versatile of them all....

 

[semenza]

Hi,

Jsands, the thinnest Domino now available is 4mm. Might be useful to you.  [smile]

Seth

 

[JSands]

Wow, is that new?  did not recall it....

btw, it says 4x20mm, is the 20mm the width or length?  can't find the other dimension.

Yep, this thin domino now is stealing what little thunder the ol biscuits had remaining 

I fear buying one now...