Communication with TSO Products

[Rick Herrick]

I always jump to let people know when interaction/support from a company goes good.  But this one falls on the other side of the ledger.  Still anticipating the delivery of my new Shaper Origin, I had a couple of ideas for jigs.  I had purchased a couple of TSO's Power Loc dogs last year.  I wanted to get a few more.  I checked the website and the price looked higher than I remember, and it was.  Pretty much doubled.  I sent a note to their support email...

"Hello,

I bought a set of these last year.  These are the 61-455 model.  I paid $16.95 each then.  I wanted a few more and now I see they are $32.95.  Is that correct?  Am I missing something here ?"

Their response...

"Hi Rick,

That's the new price unfortunately.

Thanks for checking!

Linda"

My jaw is still on the ground.  I really don't know what to make of this.  I realize everything has gone up but man, 100% increase?  And I have spent several thousand dollars with them so I expected a tad more information on why the increase was so high.  I realize they do not owe me an explanation, but I expected better treatment than that.

I think my budget for blue tools is on hold for the foreseeable future.

 

[woodbutcherbower]

Hi Rick,

I feel your pain. I build many, many doors in European oak. The price of the timber has tripled inside 18 months. I just collected 8 x 2.4-metre lengths of 1” x 6” kiln-dried this morning - $740. The cost of raw materials, power, fuel for transport and shipping - most everything - has reached stratospheric levels over here, and I’m sure the US is similar. I obviously can’t speak for TSO or any other stateside supplier, but I’m sure they have good reasons for doing this.

 

[DynaGlide]

I recall seeing in their e-mails something about them absorbing the costs from inflation the past couple of years and that they would be forced to increase prices.

Take a look anywhere and prices are way up. Bandsaws that were $1400 3 years ago are now $2000. Plywood is tripled in some cases. Aluminum is, from what I understand, much harder to get from my talks with the owner of Track Tubes.

I believe the price increase just went into effect with TSO. I have an e-mail advertising the power loc dogs at $29.95 in October plus a 30% sale/discount. Maybe try asking if they can extend the sale price for you?

Matt

 

[Oldwood]

I think that what an item is worth is what people will pay for it. When I think the price of something is not what it should be, I don't buy it, if at all possible.

This part of my consumers set the price thinking, and it is the only way we have of controlling costs.

I do understand you just can not live without it and must pay what is demanded, but if I can, I will shop elsewhere or do without.

FWIW

Gerry

 

[squall_line]

The e-mail I received from TSO on October 29 regarding their most recent sale showed the following:

Power-Loc Bench Connector Dog
Current MSRP: $29.95
Today's Sale Price: $20.97
Nov. 1 MSRP: $32.95

Also, the Power-Loc is barely a year old; it was introduced in July, 2021.  Was $16.95 a sale and/or introductory price?

 

[Banana]

No doubt inflation (your money is worth-less) is in play, though a 100% increase seems like they are taking advantage of the times.  Perhaps wanting to move towards a Woodpeckers ephemera pricing model and now’s the time to try it or other strategy.  Could have someone new helping them in marking etc. 

But that recent email showing 3 prices falls squarely into sales tactics.  Come black Friday / holidays we could see price drop back down to push off those who’ve been sitting on the fence year round.  I.e. a markup to create a fake sales price when year end sales count.  I would hold off for now.

 

[Rick Herrick]

I don't remember if my July 2021 price was an introductory price or not, maybe it was.  The last email I got from TSO did show the 30% off, wording below.

30% Off Discontinued & Overstocked Bench Dogs

I saw nothing relating to the Power Loc version though.

Again, several folks are mentioning that everything is going up and I did reference that in my original post.  But just like WoodPecker and their silly 5%-9% sale prices, I just don't like all the sales tactics.  And I know that wood working vendors aren't the only ones doing it, I GET IT....

My biggest concern is their customer service response.  I don't really see Hans drafting that email so I wonder what has changed at TSO.  But if I have spent a good deal of money at TSO, and talked up their products, I would expect a better composed reason as to why a product has doubled in 1 year.  I still think loyalty should be rewarded in some way.

And I am perfectly aware that if I don't like their prices, I don't have to buy it.. Again, I get that.

 

[Chainring]

I just looked at my first order of Power-Loc dogs that was placed on May 27, 2022 and they were $16.95/ea. I received some last week from the one day 30% off sale and those were $20.97.

 

[Cheese]

Anyone purchased some copper Romex lately? Some of that copper wire is almost double what it was a few years ago.

Rick, I just think TSO is experiencing some growing pangs. They just moved into a new manufacturing/engineering facility to help centralize the players. New CAD systems, new phone system, new capital equipment, new office supplies not to mention the new people that were also hired. This was all happening just a few months ago, I doubt they've got everything straightened out yet.

I agree, the message you received was nice and professional but probably wouldn't have been penned by Hans.  [smile]

 

[Banana]

Anyone purchased some copper Romex lately? Some of that copper wire is almost double what it was a few years ago. ...

Copper clad aluminum in the smaller residential gauges has been making a comeback in recent years. Beginning to see more NEC code addressing it.  Allowed in MC & NM too.
Used to think when I saw a pick up dragging it’s bumper on the road fully filled with rolls of romex that he was making a delivery or going to a big job.  Now I know better, they hit the sale at the distributor. 

 

[Packard]

When I was having problems setting up the squaring arm and wrote about it within these forums, Hans sent me a personal message and arranged for an after hours phone call to resolve the issue.

So my experience was quite the opposite.

But imagine, if you will, that market conditions require a major price increase, and your job is to field phone calls on that.

For the first 10 calls you are polite and patient.  But by the 30th call, you remain polite, but perhaps a bit less patient. Finally, you ask the boss if you can’t have a pre-recorded message, “If you are calling about the substantial price increase on our widgets, we are looking at ways to get the manufacturing costs down.  If you are calling on another matter, please press “1”.”

 

[Crazyraceguy]

This just seems odd?
Given that they have been "absorbing" the added costs for a while, a change might indeed be in order. But you would think this would be a gradual ramp-up. Huge jumps just stun people.
The issue I have though, is with the Email response. The line "That's the new price unfortunately" is just horrible. It's kind of a "sorry not sorry" that reads almost as bad as "get over it"
It is way to abrupt and offers absolutely no justification. I realize that they don't "have to" explain anything, but it sure would smooth things over better. Customer relations can do or undo a lot, very quickly

 

[Mini Me]

Retail pricing is a curious animal from both a supplier's and a buyer's viewpoint. As a supplier/retailer I have one golden rule, no sales at any time for anyone but the price is set lower to make it attractive to buyers. If people know that they can wait for the next sale they usually will and the only reason for that is the price is set too high in the first place. I use my own view on what a fair price is and I have never had price complaints apart from one person who said he would wait for me to run a sale....he is still waiting!!

 

[woodbutcherbower]

I 100% understand everyone's viewpoint on this topic, including the discomfort at TSO's email response. But do all of their customers feel so entitled that they expect a personal, hand-written apology and cost-increase justification from the company owner? Would you expect the same from Elon Musk when the price of your Tesla goes up? I find it more than a little ironic that these comments are posted on a forum which focuses on high-cost, high-end power tools whose retail price often bears zero relation whatsoever to their apparent material cost, or to the fact that we can all go to the store and buy something which is easily 90% as good for less than half the price.

I personally own only one TSO product - a GRS-16. I use it every day. I look at the quality of design, the quality of machining and finish, and I can only imagine the investment TSO must have made in manufacturing technology to achieve that. I further imagine the costs of raw materials, the costs of heating and lighting the production facility and the office, along with its CAD and IT stuff, the cost of all of their staff including the old guy who sweeps the floor, what they pay to the IRS, plus a hundred other background costs which most end-users could never even imagine. I then look at what I paid for it, and I further imagine the cost of getting it across the water, I look at the dealer's margin (Axminster Tools), I look at the fact that the price I paid has been hiked by a fifth courtesy of the UK's 20% sales tax (VAT), I look at what the product actually does for me - and I can't help thinking that I bagged an absolute, total bargain. Has anyone on here even noticed that the length of it is perfectly gauged so that it sits vertically inside the front wall of a TS55 Systainer? I sure did - and those little details impress the heck out of me.

Sure - we all hate it when prices go up. But even an increase from fifteen to thirty bucks represents the same difference as you'd pay at Starbucks for a fancy cup of coffee, a sandwich, and a cake - which, inside 15 minutes, is gone forever. And criticising a company for doing what it can to make sales? COME ON, people. No sales = no company. No company = no products. No products = a big hole where a great product used to be.

I'm kinda disappointed to be reading posts from folks who seem to know the price of everything - but the value of nothing. Sorry and all. So I know this post won't be popular. I'm just being realistic.

Kevin
 

 

[peter halle]

I can say that I have to agree with Kevin's post above.  I might also add that in a small company - which is what TSO is - the owner's time might not be best spent on the telephone answering questions about pricing.  Additionally, TSO utilizes the services of vendors who usually are doing fabrication for the medical and aerospace industries and have the capabilities to perform work at the high level that TSO and its customers have come to expect.  I am sure that they are driving the cost increases as well as the materials.

Peter

 

[Mini Me]

The email response was spot on, it did not invite a debate and the company has the right to price its products as it sees fit without any justification and if you don't like it don't buy the product.

 

[Laminator]

Another in agreement with Kevin. It is sad the current state of covid induced distortion to just about everything.  I'm keen on precision high end innovative tools and accessories and if it is something I need I just take a breath and buy it.  By the time it shows up the price sting has all but disappeared and I know my work will be made easier/more productive and satisfying.

 

[Chainring]

Even with the higher, although discounted price when I jumped on them last week, I'm happy to support TSO. Heck, just added the MTR-X since it was 10% off and free shipping.

 

[rjboch]

I have to say that I was disappointed and dismayed by the original post and first few responses. They owe no one a detailed response to why they increased prices on a $30 product.

Everything has gone up in price! Are we equally mad with other companies and professions for increasing costs during these difficult times? I seriously doubt that most reputable companies are taking advantage of this situation, but instead have seen their rents increase, utility rates go up, employees demand higher wages (or they walk), material prices increase, etc. At end of day, they have to balance the books and they are not in the business to lose money. I think we all got spoiled with many years of low inflation and lots of cheap money.

I cannot agree more with Kevin. Kevin for President!

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

Another agreement with Kevin, thank you for the thoughtful post and dose of common sense.