Compact Module Support (CMS) Table and Inserts

[NMacK]

Hi
Festool offers a Compact Module System (CMS) Table or Frame with inserts for the TS55 Saw and Jigsaw.  I would like to get feedback from users who have bought the CMS system; does the additional cost warrant the additional benefits?  I look forward to your replies.
Regards
NMacK

 

[paul_david_thomas]

Hi,

The first FESTOOL purchase i made was...

Bench saw CMS-TS 55-Set GB 110V
Mobile dust extractor CTL MINI GB 110V

The reason for purchase was for some pretty precise cutting for some walnut flooring and also doing the goings and risers of the stairs in the same Walnut.

Now. For the going and risers I needed to cut the timber to the "mm" (UK you see), so I set up the saw and did 84 pieces of Walnut that were exactly the same. This was much much quicker than doing it with the Guide Rail and the results were great.

Now, I think it paid for itself on that one job - I can't imagine how long with a Guide it would have taken... Equally, with the CTL mini, no dust. I think if your really doing this for a full time job, you might want a larger hoover, but I was happy going through a few bags.

I did not buy the Y connector for taking the dust/chippings from the top - I'd suggest you should buy this. I still might.

Also, the CMS system is the same height as the MTS/3 system. I've just bought a MTS/3 and it's really usefull for LONG bits of timber.

I was not to mad on the plastic thing they use for pushing stock through, so I made my own - you'll find lot's of places telling you how to do this.

The first few times, getting the TS55 into the "module" is a pain, but after 3 or 4 times it's pretty easy and is a matter of 1 or 2 mins work.

I've never used the angle thingy other than for setting it at 90 degs from the work piece.

Would I buy again - only if I had a real need.

I do use it for ripping (panther blade) 2x4's down - and that's nice, much better than using the guide or an offset on the saw.

Paul. Hope this helps.

I'll drop some pics of the work if I can.

 

[Eli]

I have it and love it. Like Paul said, it does take a few minutes to get it in or out of the table, which isn't hard, it just interrupts the work flow a bit. I do have the y connector, and it does do a pretty good job of controlling the dust.

I bought the LA-50 fence, which is more of a fence than the one it comes with. You could go the other way and for a bit more (I think) get the sliding table. Depends on what you're doing. I also have the jigsaw module which so far has kept at bay my desire for a bandsaw.

I use a regular 1080 for an outfeed and it works fine, in fact I like having it below the surface of the CMS. But I also use a side and rear extension table, which makes the footprint of the saw that much bigger, offering better support. I don't think I'll be getting an MFT/3, but instead another 1080.

 

[Graham]

Hi

I have been looking at the CMS TS55 and and the MFT/3 as I do not have a workshop so need to be able to pack things away.  Can you guys give me your advice on the following.

1. There appear to be two extension table on the Festool website VL and a VB-CMS, do you know what the difference is and is one better than the other?

2. Any idea what 'support AF' is for?

3. If I get the sliding table (think it comes with the set?) do I not need the LA fence?

Also looking at the router module, anyone have any experience with this?

Thanks for your help

 

[paul_david_thomas]

If your looking at the extension table and the MFT/3 give me a day as I intend to make one from 25mm MDF... I'll post some pic's tomorrow after the glue's gone off. I needed a little more length - as it were !!

Paul.

p.s. cost - about ?4 worth of MDF.

 

[Steve Jones]

CMS coming to US in 2009!

I just received the Wood Magazine promo email, it gives a link to some videos from the IWF show.

In day 4 video (past half way) about 12 seconds of new Festool items coming to the US including the complete CMS system, apparently coming in 2009. (also shows vacuum clamping system and new drill/drivers) - unfortunately this is so heavily edited we dont get 1/4 of the original footage and none of the reps descriptions, almost down to "if you look closely and don't blink you'd swear there's a flash of Festool green as the camera flashes past some tools"

I guess Festool does not spend enough advertising money with Wood Magazine, the 12 second segment was shorter than that given to some pimped up "custom painted" tablesaw. You can get a flame paint job on your tablesaw! - hurry and buy now - one to a customer -  your mileage may vary -  see dealer for details -  not available in all states - yada,yada,yada

Which points out "WOOD" magazines priorities, more screen time to a flame paint job on a tablesaw than for one of the most innovative developments in woodworking tools (in my not so humble opinion) the CMS system.

 

[Forrest Anderson]

I have been looking at the CMS TS55 and and the MFT/3 as I do not have a workshop so need to be able to pack things away.

If you are in the USA, remember that the CMS is not yet available there.

Can you guys give me your advice on the following.

1. There appear to be two extension table on the Festool website VL and a VB-CMS, do you know what the difference is and is one better than the other?

Extension Table VB (Tischverbreiterung)

...is attached to the right-hand side of the main CMS table. It also fits onto the right-hand side of the CS50 table saw which is another item not available in North America (NAINA)

Note that it has two support legs, but only one is visible in the picture.

Extension Table VL (Tischverlangerung)

...is attached to the rear of the CMS or CS50.

2. Any idea what 'support AF' is for?

Support AF (Auflage) is attached to the right of the CMS and CS50, and is simply a cheaper alternative to Extension Table VB.

3. If I get the sliding table (think it comes with the set?) do I not need the LA fence?

The Sliding Table ST (Schiebetisch) (which does come with the CMS-TS 55 Set)...

...is attached to the left of the CMS and CS50.

You would normally attach the Angle Stop WA (Winkelanschlag)...

...to the Sliding Table, and then use this combination for cross-cutting in the same way that you would use a mitre fence on a simple table saw. Mounted on the sliding table, the Angle Stop moves back and forward like a standard mitre fence (see photo at top left of Page 6 of the CMS brochure).

To do rip cuts, you can attach the Angle Stop to one of the four sides of the CMS to CS50, so that the fence is parallel to the blade, and then slide the wood past it.

Alternatively, you can mount the Rip Fence LA (Langsanschlag)...

...to the right or left of the saw blade and slide the wood past that instead (see photo at top left of Page 7 of the CMS brochure). This fence clamps to the V-grooves at the front and back edges of the main table of the CMS/CS50, and is more rigid than the Angle Stop, which only clamps to the V-groove in one place. It also has a micro-adjustment, allowing you to move the fence a small amount left or right.

Forrest

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Since I couldn't include it in my last post, here's a photo of the Support AF:

To show how all the bits (except the Support AF) fit together, here is an annotated photo of the CMS, taken from the brochure:

In this set-up, the operator is using the Rip Fence LA to cut a board. The Sliding Table ST and Angle Stop WA are mounted on the CMS, but aren't being use in this operation.

Forrest

 

[Dane]

I'm sorry, but as into Festool as I am (and I am), I fail to see what kind of space savings you are achieving with that set up as opposed to the Dewalt 745 and the Rousseau table.  Not to mention the hassle of loading your TS into the thing, only to have to take it out when you want to use it to break down sheet goods.  I want to like this thing, what am I missing?

 

[nickao]

This seems to get away from the TS and rail and tries to copy a table saw that  Festool seems to  claim they want to get away from. I thought the TS 75 rail system is what differentiates their "system" from other tools like table saws.. So I am with you Dane. As much as people want to resist a table saw, a regular table saw  is a great tool and has invaluable uses in its traditional form.

If they are putting out this CMS and now the kapex, why not just come out with a top of the line industry innovative table saw? All the supports and do dads on the CMS just do not look sturdy. I guess I have to touch it to really know.

To me it is a bunch of add ons connected together to make a mess that looks like it has many different places it can fail.

I guess I will have to see it(better yet try it) to believe in it.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Add the cost of all this stuff to what Dane and Nick said......well, I'll have try it before making any meaningful comments. As of right now I'm not sold.

 

[Loren Hedahl]

I might have been interested a year ago.  But now that I have a DeWalt 745 my need for making narrow rips is covered.  I am also completely spoiled with the DeWalt fence.  I love that fence.  I've never had a table saw fence that worked as nice as the DeWalt fence.

When hooked up to a shop vac, all the fine sawdust is captured.  The stuff that doesn't is larger chip stuff that doesn't float around in the air.  I've been thinking about building a small cabinet for it that houses the vac.

 

[Tom the Remodeler]

I agree with Dane, nickao, Loren and Brice. I really WANT to like the CMS, it looks like a really nifty piece of engineering and my OCD starts acting up when I start thinking about it being a Modular part of a System. However.... for my personal, professional needs, I am better served (for now, at least) by a dedicated, small table saw in the size range of the DeWalt 745 or Makita 2703. While the CMS looks like it'd be pretty neat set up in a work shop, I just can't imagine transporting all those different components in the back of my truck or in a trailer from job to job. Plus, I often find myself in situations where I want a tablesaw AND a plunge-cut rail saw, such as when producing built-ins on-site, where constantly installing and removing my TS55 from the CMS would take up too much time.

I really like the concept of the CMS, but for me I just don't see it entering my inventory anytime soon (even when/if it becomes available in NA). What I'd REALLY like to see, from a remodeler's perspective, is a greater selection of smaller, portable, reasonably accurate table saws, in the size range of the DW745 and Makita 2703. Granted, the 2703 has a disaster of a fence, I just use it for size and power reference. I like my DW745, if for no other reason there just isn't much else to compare it to. I wish it had somewhat better dust collection, but then again I get spoiled by my Festools. I like that I can carry the saw in one hand and the folding stand in the other, and that I can carry it up a winding maid's staircase to the 3rd floor ballroom of a 19th century Victorian home, something that cant' be said for the larger Bosch 4100, Dewalt 744, or Makita 2704.

I'd love to see a greater range of tablesaws made available from Bosch, Makita, Festool, heck, even Milwaukee, Hitachi and Ridgid, that would have a similar size and capability to the DW745. My criteria would be that it have an accurate fence, be light enough to carry with one hand, or if carried with two be small enough to fit through doorways and winding staircases, have some sort of a quick-deploy folding stand, and be rugged enough to survive life on the road with a traveling remodeler....

 

[festoolfan1000]

I mentioned in another post I think when I converted the price over from a Aussie site it worked out to something like $1700 Which is ridiculuos for what you get. For that much coin you can pick up a 745, drop in stand, out feed supports a Domino with Domino's and still have cash left over. I like my Festool's but get real...

 

[Eli]

Well, for me it wasn't that hard of a choice. I had no table saw. I wanted one. The Dewalt is 1K here. Might as well spend extra and get system'd. With the extra tables (which I use), the table size is almost double the Dewalt. Dust collection on the Dewalt is non-existent for the sake of comparison. With this base I can have a Table saw, mounted jigsaw, and router table in 1/3 the space of those three. To be able to move all of this on site is incomparable.

It's the same argument as with everything. If you want it, it's worth the money. If you don't want it, it isn't.

Do I really have to spend the next six months listening to you guys tear it down, then the next two months praising it, then the three months after that complaining about every single feature in turn?  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

[Forrest Anderson]

Do I really have to spend the next six months listening to you guys tear it down, then the next two months praising it, then the three months after that complaining about every single feature in turn?  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

It sure looks like it 

"It's not big enough"

"It's not small enough"

"It's too light and flimsy"

"It's too heavy"

And the perennial one that everyone trots out...

"It's way too expensive"

Forrest

 

[paul_david_thomas]

I think the main concept of the CMS is that you can easily chuck it in the seat of the car and go to a job. It also doubles up for a space tight work place - which it does just fine. If you compare it to custom heavy dedicated tables, it falls short in a few areas - they are different beasts. Not quite chalk and cheese, but you get the idea.

I've started taking things from my CMS and fitting them to the MTF/3... Not fully interchangeable, but most things work.

Paul.

currently in a world of tile dust... I hate cutting tiles... I really hate cutting tiles...

 

[Brice Burrell]

Do I really have to spend the next six months listening to you guys tear it down, then the next two months praising it, then the three months after that complaining about every single feature in turn?  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Eli, that's a dumb question, of course you do! That's what the internet is for.  ;D

 

[Graham]

Forest,  thanks for the info, that has really helped to clarify things.  I'm in the UK so mixed blessings, the CMS is available but it would seem everything Festool costs so much more than the US (much like everything else!)

It has been really useful to have everyones input on this and I don't want to hijack the thread but I have been looking at the CMS because I am planning to get the TS55 anyway and I can get it as part of the CMS set and so get the best of both worlds (table and rail)  It also gives me an option on a router table (which I would love to have) in pretty much the same amount of space.

This is not for my day job so whilst it will be a pain to have to load and unload the saw/router I can probably live with.  Not having a workshop and setting up in the kitchen means that with the dust collection system I will not cover the whole place in dust everytime I want to do some work (obvious benefits for a stress free home life!!) and the ability to take it all apart and put it away in a cupboard is huge plus.

Don't get me wrong I am still undecided as it is a huge cost (especially when you start adding on the side tables etc) and there is a part of me that thinks I could make do without the table saw and router table and buy some router rails, dovetail jig and the domino instead!!

Decisions decisions! :-\

 

[paul_david_thomas]

Graham,

I think you'll find their is a CMS bare unit 110V brand new on UK ebay at the moment... Private sale, currently ?51.00.

Paul