Consideration for Festool users

[Old G]

Everyone agrees that Festool products have set the bar high by manufacturing innovative tools that are a pleasure to use.  At the same time, I am concerned about long time users who are not considered when new models are released (nearly obsoleting the old) or long running problems that go unresolved. I'm curious to see what you guys think.

A few examples: the new C12 & 15 feature Li-ion batteries that are not backward compatible with previous models. Same goes for the new belt cip design. The T-15 "won't hold" chuck continues to be a pain. The "Gorilla sleeve" is a great solution to holding the power cord to the dust hose so it would seem logical to offer it.  Dare I mention the infamous electrical outlet on the dust extractors or the "new" cut strips for the guide rail that do not adhere well? The guys in Lebanon do a great job in trying to service tools now in the field but they can't make the new parts that will help current users.

No, I don't propose the factory offer free upgrades. I do advocate that they design new products with current users in mind so that we can add some of the new features at reduced cost. We all melted the credit card to obtain Festool products initially and the tools continue to perform well. However, discarding "old" tools in order to get new models with desirable features is out of the question. Selling old ones on e-bay or Craig's list is not the answer either.

Providing a simple means to upgrade with select components would sure make many current users happy and be very beneficial for future Festool sales.

 

[Theshipstore]

Old G  First welcome to FOG  [welcome]  you will find a great number of people here who will be very helpful to you as you go along.

Although I do agreed with you on a simple means of suppling upgrades to the users, I haven't real found any long term problem that can't be easily solved thru Festool direct or with the help of other FOG members.
Yes it get frustrating with the amount of money we spend that certain newer tools have feature that will not work on the older tools, but this is so throughout the industry when it comes to power tools.

To me all I see is things improving within Festool and some of us with the older style Drills, Saws etc, have to accept that and maybe be somewhat jealous of the newer improvements , but this to me does not lessen the tools I have, if anything it makes me smile that Festool is progressing in a forward motion for all.

Would I like to have everything new and up too date, sure i would but this is to me the same as buying a new computer it is new until you walk out the door and the newer version is released.  [2cents]
Anyway  again welcome to FOG

Sal

 

[Jesse Cloud]

Interesting post.  I see both sides of this problem.

If Festool is going to continue to be innovative, and I hope they will, they have to change things dramatically.  Making things "backward compatible" is a huge drag to innovation (witness Microsoft).

I don't think any power tool company has much of a track record on upgrades from legacy tools to new tools.

And you can bet money that any tool with a battery will be obsolete in a few years.

On the other hand, I'm getting nervous about some of my tools and I'm not even a long time Festool user.  I recently blew the dust off my discontinued VS600 for a couple of projects and quickly found that getting accessories was like banging your head against the wall.  Now I wonder if someday soon I will run into similar issues with my MFT 1080 and my CT22.

I guess we will probably do a little better on this issue with Festool than with other companies, but I don't expect as much as I used to.  I used to pretty much buy whatever new tool Festool came up with, but I think I need to be a little more cautious now.

And there's always a fallback - I have a shop full of handtools and not a one of them is obsolete or ever will be. [big grin]

 

[semenza]

Hi Old G,

Welcome to the FOG !

I am not so sure that long time users of older models are not considered.  And the quality coupled with innovative features will hardly make the tools obsolete any more than any other tool  or device from any manufacturer.  Is Festool striving to be better than other tool manufacturers? Yes. And that means redesigning to make the innovation continue. In many cases a new feature would be impossible to retrofit and have it work well. Ceratinly there are some problems, I suspect they are being worked on at tis very moment.

As to some of the examples...

          the batteries are not backward compatible but the drills are. The electronics of the old drills will not function with the new batteries, that would have been quite a build in to predict. But backwards compatibility was built in to the new drills to serve the old batteries.

          the "won't hold " chuck seems to be a problem  [unsure]  Is this the jacobs chuck?

           the gorilla sleeve is readily available from many sources in many styles, so I don't know why Festool would need to offer it except to make people aware of its existence.

           the electrical outlet... lots of people say they have had them fail and lots have no trouble. All that I have heard of being a problem have been replaced under warranty. Is it a problem , yes, but Festool takes care of this type of thing better than most for a longer time than most with no hassle. Other companies hardly care about replacing that type of thing.

       The new anti splinter strips were a direct result of users complaining that the old type were too hard to remove. Festool responded to its customers, and seemingly flubbed up in the other direction. Bet they are working on the adhesive.

I bet the next generation of all of these problems will be fixed. Festool is a step ( or ten) ahead simply by offering the service level that they do. Are the tools perfect, no, but they are way better than most and seriously backed up.

One thing to keep in mind is that this board tends to see a high percentage of problems posted, because people don't  generally post when they don't  have a problem.

Personally I have had excellent success selling Festool on Ebay as a means of upgrade. Getting 75% of my money back after using the tool for several years. Try that with one of the other prolific brands as a way of upgrading. I don't know what would be a better answer cost wise to get a new even more innovative tool with a new three year warranty.

I just don't see how Festool could be free to make big improvements and solve tool problems if they also had to design the new product to be able to retrofit to the old and work well.

Yup, Festool ain't perfect but they are most closer than .

Seth
       

 

[justinmcf]

Hi old G.
And welcome to the FOG!

I agree with all the posters on this thread.
I highly recommend that you set up an ebay account.
You will be very happy to pay the high price of admission to the Festool world, knowing at a later stage you can sell and recover 50% to 80% of what you initially paid. (Depending on what condition the item is in).

Regards, Justin.

 

[BTDT]

I personally think that I am getting bang for my buck when I buy my Festools. After all, I buy them for what they can do for me immediately not at some future point in time. This includes the CT-22 that I bought just prior to the CT-26 being released. (I would love the new certification but then again I don't really plan on doing any abatement projects as a hobbyist.  Heck, my CT-22 is my favourite Festool. With it I can set up work in any room in the house and not have the missus after me! She likes it because the room is generally cleaner when I finish.)

I'm just glad I hear there are people using older versions of the TS55 (AT??) out there! Gives me peace of mind that I will be using my TS-55 for some time to come!

BTDT

PS - I would also rather not inhibit innovation or increase the cost.

 

[rookie08]

Hi Old G,

+1 on what everyone else has said.  I can't think of another brand of tool, or pretty much anything else, where you can get 80%, or more, of your investment back on your tools, when you want to upgrade.

I've got a brand new, never used, still have the box, Milwaukee 12" digital slider, that I bought a little over a year ago, posted on Craigslist for about 2/3'ds of what I paid for it; and I'll be lucky to get that! Did I mention it was NEW!)  [eek]

Festool is high quality and great value, but nothing is perfect.

 

[peter halle]

First, welcome Old G!  Well written post.  My views will differ from yours, but I welcome differing thoughts.  Debate is healthy as long as it is done with dignity in my mind.

Evolution in power tools - especially cordless tools that depend on battery technology - is inevitable.  Designing a tool with a development time of 6 to 7 years has got to be tough.

Festool manufactures and sells tools.  Competition and consumer desire drives evolutiona and change.

I don't collect tools for fun.  My tools in combination with my skills and intellect have contributed the majority of my household income for almost three decades.  A cordless drill that did why I needed it to do yesterday will not be obsolete tomorrow if a new model comes out.  I am comfortable that if I have an issue with that drill it can be  serviced.

I don't lose sleep over splinter strips, label adhesives, or electrical receptacles (which are user serviceable).

I don't care what my tools will be worth on the open market x years from now.  My goal is to use them to the point where they are useless to another user.

Just my thoughts.

Peter

 

[fshanno]

You're wrong in at least one area.  I was expecting great things from that "V" profile design on the MFT, all sorts of new must-have gadgets that attach to the MFT for who knows what.  And what did we get?  The sound of crickets in the distance.  I have a lowly 1080 but it's like, so what?  Still works fine for me.  The new fence is clearly better but that was a incremental improvement. Seems to me they've let MFT3 owners down, not 1080 users.

You have a point with the drill batteries.  If it was my company I'd take the hit and start putting belt hooks on batteries for older model drills.  I'd ask that my owner community give me 6 to 8 months to get some new drills sold then I'd bite the bullet.  I admit that this is a bit above and beyond the call, but Festool just may be that good, we'll see.  Does the new ratcheting chuck not fit old drills?  If not then they should provide one that does.  If they won't then that kind of stinks doesn't it?  But when it comes to the trigger light, I'd draw the line. No way am I going to offer to retrofit old drills with a trigger light.  That's just too much.

But even if Festool won't pony up on any of these things, you gotta admit, it's still a great tool company. 

 

[semenza]

MFT3 V groove discussion is here

V Groove

Seth