Crown Moulding Install

[donnenwerth woodworking]

Hey Fog Members,

I am hoping to get your input on an upcoming job well an addition to a kitchen I'm working on.  The job is to install 4-1/4" crown and 4" colonial baseboard throughout a dining room and kitchen.  I am already custom building and installing all the cabinets for this kitchen, since I'm there installing crown and base on the cabinets figured I might as well do the rest of the room also. 

The job will be approximately 100' - poplar 4-1/4" crown moulding, 80' of 4" colonial baseboard and 3 interior doors for casing. 

I am going to be spraying all the trim also.

These are not something I typically bid for.  I just usually figure material for my cabinetry bid and add an extra hour or two when installed on my cabinets. 

The Crown Moulding job entails 15 cuts - either outside miters, coping or scribing along a fireplace for an end. 

Baseboard entails - 15 cuts also.

Hoping to hear some feedback on how you guys go about bidding this type of work?  by the linear foot plus $ for each cut?  Also painting the trim do you typically go hourly on this or by the linear foot? 

Homeowner will be paying for all the material just need to know about labor cost. 

Thanks in advance..

Pat

 

[nickao]

Min 45.35 an hour and that's if I am really giving a great deal. In reality in Chicago(Cook County) I allow at least 75.00 an hour for any trim job I would do myself.

If I had to send a worker out I need to charge 75.00 anyhow just to make about 30.00 an hour gross on him, after all my costs I get 7.50 to 10.00 a man hour at that rate, then of course the gov hits me for near 30% of that at the end of the year.

So when guys look at you sideways and say 75.00 an hour and think you are crazy or guys(or possibly you yourself)  say they won't charge that much because  they themselves wouldn't or couldn't pay 75.00 an hour need take a reality check. They need understand 75.00 an hour gets an owner maybe 5.00 to 7.50 a man if everything goes right.

I charge material plus 20% to 30% on top of that depending on the material list complexity. In very few cases I might go as low as 10% if it's a small job and I know I won't make any mistakes. I never go back asking a client for more money  so if I only go material plus 10% it can be tense. If I make a mistake I am out of luck..

Every area is different, a 4 year apprentice around here gets over 38.00 an hour. So pay yourself like a foreman that runs 4 man crews, that's where that 45.35 number comes from. But as I said,  the owner must charge the client that 75.00 to be able to pay that 45.35 an hour.

I have the current union wages list somewhere if interested. For trim work like you are doing I would google the current local union carpentry wages list in your area and take a hard look. Then use those numbers as your min charge and charge more where you can using those numbers from a business owners perspective. Meaning look at it as you having to pay that wage to someone as opposed to receiving that wage from the client, even if you work alone. That's the key to staying in business, IMHO.

The first few years I just didn't charge enough, to where  I now charge 5 times more(by hour the and for inlay pieces)than when I started and that's adjusted for inflation. If my wife was not working those first years I would of gone out of business, I was not making money. We actually did move from the home we were in because we could not afford it.  That first day I charged 5 times more over night it blew my mind that people paid it and didn't even blink! I woke up fast after that. All that work I gave away and people actually complained at that rate! I have had ZERO complaints since 2006 when I increased my pricing 5 fold. Not sure what to take away from that other than people that want a deal are viscous and really want the job done for nothing. And clients willing to pay more realize they are getting quality and are appreciative of it.

 

[donnenwerth woodworking]

Dovetail,

I appreciate the advice.  I'm starting to learn about charging more and more.  This past year was really my first year of being absolutely full time.  Did 4 complete custom kitchens myself.  Each job charging more and more.  When the first homeowners didn't flinch when seeing my quote I knew I left a lot on the table.