CT Midi - is the hose garage still weak?

[Marlinspike]

I was reading an old thread about how easily the tops of the CT Midi and CT 26 break. Is this still true or did they update them? I'm trying to decide between one these and the Fein Turbo I.

 

[Tyler Ernsberger]

They have not upgraded the hose garages.  The hose garages do get brittle over time.  I have replaced the hose garages on my ct36 and my ct midi.  On the new hose garages that I purchased I reinforced the underside with epoxy.  Welcome to the FoG!!!

 

[Marlinspike]

They have not upgraded the hose garages.  The hose garages do get brittle over time.  I have replaced the hose garages on my ct36 and my ct midi.  On the new hose garages that I purchased I reinforced the underside with epoxy.  Welcome to the FoG!!!

Thanks for the welcome, but it may be a short stay. Seems Festool always almost makes the tool I want. I don't love that the Fein lacks an anti-static hose option and can't turn down the motor strength, but I dislike more that at its price point the Festool has a known flaw and went with wiring that can only handle 12 total amps (I realize being able to turn down the motor means you can use powerful tools through it, but it's still only a 12 amp total). I could have looked past the 12 amps for the sake of the AS hose but not with the known weakness issue. The Rotex is a great tool, but just simply too much more than the less refined but faster at stock removal Makita BO6050J.

On the other hand, I just tried Festool sandpaper for the first time and I sure do LOVE that.

 

[JonSchuck]

I might be wrong but I think the ct's will handle 20 amps.  In fact my older ct 22 has one sideways prong so it will only fit in a 20 amp outlet.

 

[Marlinspike]

I might be wrong but I think the ct's will handle 20 amps.  In fact my older ct 22 has one sideways prong so it will only fit in a 20 amp outlet.

All current production Festool vacs are limited to 12 amp total load. I don't know when the CT 22 is from, but I'm going to take a guess that it's from before 2013.

 

[JonSchuck]

I might be wrong but I think the ct's will handle 20 amps.  In fact my older ct 22 has one sideways prong so it will only fit in a 20 amp outlet.

All current production Festool vacs are limited to 12 amp total load. I don't know when the CT 22 is from, but I'm going to take a guess that it's from before 2013.

Yes, the 26 replaced the 22.  I think the numbers stand for how many liters they hold.  I have two of the 26's and they don't have the sideways prong.  Never any problems though.

 

[AlexThePalex]

All current production Festool vacs are limited to 12 amp total load.

Where do you get that they are limited to a 12 amp load? Festool vacs should be able to handle almost any tool that fits the outlet.

Also, the plastic of the hose garage is a bit weak indeed, but it's not like they crack by just looking at them. My Mini's hose garage is still intact and it is 10 years old, and survived 6 years with a professional painter before I got it. There's only a tiny half inch corner broken off somewhere. I'm defintitely with you that they should make that part out of better plastic to adhere to the ruggedness this brand advertises, but you do have to be quite rough with the vac to actually break it.

 

[Marlinspike]

All current production Festool vacs are limited to 12 amp total load.

Where do you get that they are limited to a 12 amp load? Festool vacs should be able to handle almost any tool that fits the outlet.

The owner's manuals.

 

[AlexThePalex]

All current production Festool vacs are limited to 12 amp total load.

Where do you get that they are limited to a 12 amp load? Festool vacs should be able to handle almost any tool that fits the outlet.

The owner's manuals.

UL lawyer speak. Festool has to say so to not upset UL. In reality the vacs are designed to power the most powerfull 110v tools you can get. (BTW, I read this in previous threads on the FOG, and since I'm from a different country with 220v I do not speak from my own experience. But this subject has come up many times before).

But I came to understand 12 amps is already quite a bit. You can run quite some demanding power tools with that.

 

[antss]

I have a mini, 22 and 26 + the Fein r2d2.

Yes, the number designation is the capacity in liters for the Festool vacs.

Marlin - I think you might be suffering from analysis paralysis. [scared]  Additionally , you're falling for the marketing hype on the Fein vacs - at least the current crop of square ones.  Those vacs are only rated to 15A  [eek] 9A for the vac and 6A max on the socket.

Festool didn't skimp on the wiring, they just conservatively rate their specs.  They have a 12ga power cord designed to use every bit of the 20A circuit you should power it with.  Both fein an festool fans pull roughly 1000W (8-9A) at max leaving roughly 1400 watts (12A)  leftover for the connected tool - given a 20A circuit and 12ga power cord.

Anyone :  do the new Fein vacs have 12ga or 14ga power cords ???  I suspect 14g. [unsure]

A look at the elect. charts shows that Fein is 1100w / 9a vac and 720w / 6a tool connection making for 1800 watts total or 15 amps .  Festool's ratings are perplexing in that the vac is rated 1000w and the total load at 1440w or 12a leaving only 4a or 440watts for a tool.  [huh] [huh] [huh]  It's actually 3.7 amps for the lawyers keeping count.  12a is the total load rating of vac and tool !

Now 4amps and 440 watts max eliminates half of the festool  line up including the popular tracksaws, rotex sanders, all the routers and the domino xl . Kapex is more than 3x the rating too !  Yet many of the promos show these tools hooked up tho the vacs and the copy says CT's are the natural companion.  Think they're going to sell vacs that blow while using over half of the tools they sell ?

What does that tell us ?  That the CT vacs are able to handle big power tools connected to their auto sensing sockets !  I'm betting the ratings are for UL approvals and are prob. influenced buy the lack of a 20A rated plug on the current crop of CT's.  The 22/33's were all listed as higher, but had the 20A plug - which guys hated.  The Kapex is rated at 13A can be used with the CT vacs, and I've used a Dewalt miter rated at 13amps for two decades with a fein, then the 22 and 26 with no issues.  It was precisely the ability to run that saw on a vac that lead me to Fein in the first place.  Id orig. bought a WAP, but it's socket wouldn't consistently handle the load and blew a fuse.  It went back and the Fein took it's place. 

I'm not trying to sell you vac here - just pointing out the fallacy in your research.  If you like the Fein, you can get an anti-static hose from Festool, Bosch, Metabo, and Husqvarna to pair with it easy enough.  It's still going to be limited by 15amps of power design though.

 

[Marlinspike]

You can't just run an anti static hose, the vac has to be set up for it as well.

Doesn't the Festool have a 17ft cord? You most certainly should not run 20 amp through 17ft of 12 gauge. You should be able to run 15 amps through that. If it in fact has a 12 gauge cord, I would doubt very seriously that Festool has more cautious lawyers than everybody else who rates the vac to 15 amps combined draw and suggest taking a look behind the outlet. Maybe I'll be surprised, but I'm happy to consider it fairly if someone who has one posts what's there.

The idea that the marketing makes it true doesn't consider that the marketing would allow for the vac power to be turned all the way down to under 4 amp.

 

[antss]

[member=62689]Marlinspike[/member] - how's this for fact counselor ? (pic)

Certainly you're not trying to tell us that 20amps through 12ga wire is unwise or unsafe ? Are you ?  And 15amps "should" be ok ?  [blink]

You realize that the wire feeding your 20amp receptacle is 12 gauge wire right ?
And that it's certainly longer than 17 feet back to the panel right ?

Now I'm not an EE, but I can tell you that the Festool ct22 and 26 will run the vac turned to full suction AND run a Dewalt 705 and it will cut all day long.  Oak flooring, cherry moldings, PT 2x and deck boards and 3/4 MDF and not wimper.  You and the engineers and lawyers and OSHA and the Govnt regulators can book a conference room and discuss the spec and ratings for a month if you want, but the numbered CT vacs will run a mitersaw and still suck dust.

While you're correct the antistatic hose wont do much good if the tool and vac aren't grounded properly - one can certainly use those hoses though.  I do not know for a fact whether Feins' is or isn't.  I suspect they'd jump on the accessory train if it were though - but you never know.  They do offer and orange antistatic hose in Europe .

 

[Marlinspike]

You know what, I was going off memory, my mistake, I was thinking of 14 ga. Still, I don't they rated it 12 amps because of an overzealous lawyer. Someone needs to give me one to take apart I guess  [big grin]

But the answer on the Fein and anti static is the hose will add nothing to the Fein.

 

[antss]

did you take apart a Fein to verify the lack of ground path ?

 

[Marlinspike]

did you take a part a Fein to verify the lack of ground path ?

No, I called them and they told me it doesn't have it and confirmed it's not a feature that could be adapted.

 

[AlexThePalex]

No, I called them and they told me it doesn't have it and confirmed it's not a feature that could be adapted.

Seems to me you're analysing the world from behind your desk. Last week I took apart my CT Mini because it was broken, and I noticed how incredibly simple the grounding to the hose was, just an electric wire that runs from the hose connector to the mains cable. This could be incorporated in any vac without difficulty, even in models people already own. You could even bend a copper wire around the hose and stick the other end in the ground.

 

[Marlinspike]

No, I called them and they told me it doesn't have it and confirmed it's not a feature that could be adapted.

Seems to me you're analysing the world from behind your desk. Last week I took apart my CT Mini because it was broken, and I noticed how incredibly simple the grounding to the hose was, just an electric wire that runs from the hose connector to the mains cable. This could be incorporated in any vac without difficulty, even in models people already own. You could even bend a copper wire around the hose and stick the other end in the ground.

You guys crack me up. Yes, that's how they work and yes I suppose your idea would work. Let me rephrase: it can't be reasonably adapted in a way that would seem suitable in a first world nation.

 

[leakyroof]

No, I called them and they told me it doesn't have it and confirmed it's not a feature that could be adapted.

Seems to me you're analysing the world from behind your desk. Last week I took apart my CT Mini because it was broken, and I noticed how incredibly simple the grounding to the hose was, just an electric wire that runs from the hose connector to the mains cable. This could be incorporated in any vac without difficulty, even in models people already own. You could even bend a copper wire around the hose and stick the other end in the ground.

You guys crack me up. Yes, that's how they work and yes I suppose your idea would work. Let me rephrase: it can't be reasonably adapted in a way that would seem suitable in a first world nation.

  Well no,  I'd have to say that Alex is showing you a First, Second or ANY world adaption that sounds super fast and easy unless Fein sealed the motor case to prevent any mods to it.
I thought Fein offered variable speed/suction vacs for a long time, so I just looked up to see what had changed with Fein Vacs. Okay, maybe you might want to read the reviews for these new square units from Fein. The most common failure is the Auto Start socket from what I'm reading, and Fein is requiring that you send the vac back to them under the warranty period ,with MUCH longer wait times from them to get it back to you compared to Festool's track record. I didn't see Variable Suction on the Turbo 1 unit being offered, so that alone would be a deal killer for me since I'm so used to it by now.
The older Feins had a stellar reputation of just working and working. These new units, at least the little Turbo 1, have racked up some surprisingly bad reviews compared to their past vacs for plastic breaking, sockets failing, casters failing and a number of people prefer the older hoses that came with the vacs compared to what's being sent with them now.  Hmm, I learned a lot... [blink]
Anyway, if the CT's aren't for you, then they aren't. I've always looked the slightly older Fein vacs and admired the lower prices on consumables like bags or filters. Now I'm not so sure of that..... [embarassed]

 

[Marlinspike]

Well no,  I'd have to say that Alex is showing you a First, Second or ANY world adaption that sounds super fast and easy unless Fein sealed the motor case to prevent any mods to it.
I thought Fein offered variable speed/suction vacs for a long time, so I just looked up to see what had changed with Fein Vacs. Okay, maybe you might want to read the reviews for these new square units from Fein. The most common failure is the Auto Start socket from what I'm reading, and Fein is requiring that you send the vac back to them under the warranty period ,with MUCH longer wait times from them to get it back to you compared to Festool's track record. I didn't see Variable Suction on the Turbo 1 unit being offered, so that alone would be a deal killer for me since I'm so used to it by now.
The older Feins had a stellar reputation of just working and working. These new units, at least the little Turbo 1, have racked up some surprisingly bad reviews compared to their past vacs for plastic breaking, sockets failing, casters failing and a number of people prefer the older hoses that came with the vacs compared to what's being sent with them now.  Hmm, I learned a lot... [blink]
Anyway, if the CT's aren't for you, then they aren't. I've always looked the slightly older Fein vacs and admired the lower prices on consumables like bags or filters. Now I'm not so sure of that..... [embarassed]

Current Turbo I and II are basically the same now just different sizes. They no longer have motor variable suction, just a bleeder on the connection. I'm glad you mentioned the problem with the tool connection failure. Granted, the repair center is about 3 miles from my office and has great service (they are also a Metabo and Milwaukee repair center), but still would be a pain.

 

[Kodi Crescent]

Let me rephrase: it can't be reasonably adapted in a way that would seem suitable in a first world nation.

Thank you for that phrasing, as I'm working hard to divorce myself from the language and behaviors of my uncivilized upbringing.  Now I have another phrase substitution option besides "ad hoc", when only the antiquated base, boorish, or offensive phrases are coming to mind. [wink]

"That's not considered a professional implementation method..."
"That solution doesn't satisfy my craftsmanship standards..."  (these just came to me).

This forum really expands our minds!