Delta 14" Clones - How Bad Can They Be?

[onocoffee]

Mid last year, I ended up buying and restoring an original 1934 Delta 890 14" cast iron bandsaw. Overall, it has been great and, outside the total lack of dust collection, I like it.

But I've been wondering - since this bandsaw is one of the most widely copied saws, how bad do the clones get? It seems like a pretty simple design to me so I'm wondering where other manufacturers have gone that made their version not as nice?

 

[leakyroof]

Ohhhhh- casting quality, machining of that cast iron frame, squareness to each mating part- wheel balance- tensioning spring quality- blade guide system- motor quality, to name a few....
And then, if you add the riser to your machine, is it still plumb or in-line, or now out of whack..

 

[P_K]

The import clones I've seen had noticeably thinner walls on the castings than a Delta, particularly the earlier solid column ones. I'd imagine resawing anything more than a few inches tall would be a challenge.

 

[Cheese]

Ohhhhh- casting quality, machining of that cast iron frame, squareness to each mating part- wheel balance- tensioning spring quality- blade guide system- motor quality, to name a few....
And then, if you add the riser to your machine, is it still plumb or in-line, or now out of whack..

Good job on the laundry list... ...once you start to think about it there are lots of "opportunities" to cut corners. I'll just add casting seasoning to the list. The first photo is the room where Atlas seasoned their lathe beds in the 30's-40's. It takes some real commitment to cast those pieces and then just let them sit around for 12-16 months. And here's how South Bend seasoned their lathe beds...stickered & stacked like lumber.

The opportunity to screw up on the motor selection also looms large in my mind as most folks only care about the HP rating. The 3rd photo is the motor on my Delta 28-303 5-speed band saw from 1990. They chose to use a Marathon motor made in the USA. Interestingly enough, about the same time I purchased a Craftsman air compressor, the motor they chose...a 1-1/2 HP model made in Taiwan. I had to replace it about 10 years ago.

 

[jeffinsgf]

What's amazing to me is how hand-held power tools have advanced dramatically while stationary machinery quality has absolutely tanked. In the 70s 80s and 90s you had your choice of a couple American made lines and 4 or 5 European options. Delta actually won a law suit against Jet around 1983. However, the ruling spelled out specifically what Jet had to change to get around any protection Delta had. That was the first step down the slippery slope that led us to today when your options are Rikon/Jet/Powermatic or Felder with virtually nothing in between.

 

[P_K]

What's amazing to me is how hand-held power tools have advanced dramatically while stationary machinery quality has absolutely tanked. In the 70s 80s and 90s you had your choice of a couple American made lines and 4 or 5 European options. Delta actually won a law suit against Jet around 1983. However, the ruling spelled out specifically what Jet had to change to get around any protection Delta had. That was the first step down the slippery slope that led us to today when your options are Rikon/Jet/Powermatic or Felder with virtually nothing in between.

To be fair, the Powermatic range of bandsaws are pretty nice, just way overpriced for what they are.

Felder’s FB Series saws are Chinese. You’ve got to pony up a lot more for their Italian made ACM ones.

 

[jeffinsgf]

To be fair, the Powermatic range of bandsaws are pretty nice, just way overpriced for what they are.

Felder’s FB Series saws are Chinese. You’ve got to pony up a lot more for their Italian made ACM ones.

Then we must have a lemon, because the PM 14" at work is one of the worst saws I've ever tried to use. Granted, way to many people have access to it, but the fit and finish is just horrid.

 

[Malinois Dad]

Then we must have a lemon, because the PM 14" at work is one of the worst saws I've ever tried to use. Granted, way to many people have access to it, but the fit and finish is just horrid.

Somewhat sad, yet thankful to read this. A PM bandsaw has been on my short list of purchases for the 2nd quarter of this year. Maybe I should do more research before I commit.

 

[Cheese]

Somewhat sad, yet thankful to read this. A PM bandsaw has been on my short list of purchases for the 2nd quarter of this year. Maybe I should do more research before I commit.

I'm a big drill press and band saw guy, I really don't understand how folks can be productive without having one or several of each of them. I recently looked at the latest Powermatic drill press and really wanted to pull the pin but I was aghast at the quality issues. Despite the evolution of drill presses, the Powermatic unit was still stuck in the past...that's unfortunate because I've always liked Powermatic tools...especially their large planers.

 

[luvmytoolz]

Somewhat sad, yet thankful to read this. A PM bandsaw has been on my short list of purchases for the 2nd quarter of this year. Maybe I should do more research before I commit.

I spent a lot of time last six months or so as I plan to replace my basic 10" bandsaw with a quality one mainly for resawing. After going through all the standard pedestrian offerings, I went through the SCM's which I thought were just way too expensive plus I'd be required to get an electrician to hard wire a single phase bandsaw (yes, they're hardwired!).

I ended up stuck between the Laguna 18BX which has 405mm resaw capability and 32mm wide blade, and the Harvey HW615 Pro which is a truly beautiful machine with all the bells and whistles, but is around 25% more expensive, slightly less resaw capability at 355mm, and max 25mm blade. I had planned to get it late last year, but I'm holding off until later this year as I still can't quite decide if I want the exceptional build quality of the Harvey, or the sheer power and capability of the Laguna.

If any really good sales come up they may have an impact on my decision.

What is it you plan to really use the bandsaw for the most?

 

[luvmytoolz]

I'm a big drill press and band saw guy, I really don't understand how folks can be productive without having one or several of each of them. I recently looked at the latest Powermatic drill press and really wanted to pull the pin but I was aghast at the quality issues. Despite the evolution of drill presses, the Powermatic unit was still stuck in the past...that's unfortunate because I've always liked Powermatic tools...especially their large planers.

I'd be lost without my bandsaw, absolutely love being able to use one. For drill presses have you looked at the Nova Viking's or Voyagers?

I've got the Viking and it an astounding machine, no matter what I throw at it, it just laughs at it. Best drill press I've ever used, and so smooth and quiet.

 

[jeffinsgf]

I'm a big drill press and band saw guy, I really don't understand how folks can be productive without having one or several of each of them. I recently looked at the latest Powermatic drill press and really wanted to pull the pin but I was aghast at the quality issues. Despite the evolution of drill presses, the Powermatic unit was still stuck in the past...that's unfortunate because I've always liked Powermatic tools...especially their large planers.

This issue has resulted in most of my machinery being vintage. I have three drill presses, the newest of which is from the early '60s (2 Deltas and a Craftsman). Both of my band saws and my planer are from the '80s (INCA). And I have an embarrassingly large collection of DeWalt radial arm saws from the 40s through the early 60s. There are very few currently available machines that I would trade any of them for.

 

[leakyroof]

Then we must have a lemon, because the PM 14" at work is one of the worst saws I've ever tried to use. Granted, way to many people have access to it, but the fit and finish is just horrid.

Is it a particular fault or a series of faults that piss you off when using it? . Bandsaws have to be tuned, no matter who makes them. once the Stack Up of Tolerances gets out of whack, they are not fun to use until corrected. Fit and Finish would be a whole another issue- which surprises me, I usually see pretty decent paint work on Jet and Powermatic machines.

 

[P_K]

Then we must have a lemon, because the PM 14" at work is one of the worst saws I've ever tried to use. Granted, way to many people have access to it, but the fit and finish is just horrid.

That's a bummer. I was actually thinking of the larger PM1500 14in saw. The one I'd seen up close was pretty nice but at $4,200 you're getting close to an 18 in ACM from Laguna/Felder/SCM.

 

[Cheese]

I'd be lost without my bandsaw, absolutely love being able to use one. For drill presses have you looked at the Nova Viking's or Voyagers?

I've got the Viking and it an astounding machine, no matter what I throw at it, it just laughs at it. Best drill press I've ever used, and so smooth and quiet.

Ya, I've looked at them but the one I really wanted to purchase was the short-lived Nova Vulcan. By the time I finally pried my wallet open they were no longer available. I have been contemplating purchasing the small Nova Viking bench top model for the garage and leave the Delta 20" downstairs for larger projects. But before I get to that stage, I have to finish running the electricity in the garage.

 

[onocoffee]

without having one or several of each of them.

I've been feeling more and more like this about bandsaws. Just so much easier to keep them set up for a single operation. And the nice thing about the FOG Family is that you guys make it seem downright typical and expected to have six bandsaws, two table saws and fourteen routers setup and ready to use at a moment's notice!

I ended up stuck between the Laguna 18BX which has 405mm resaw capability and 32mm wide blade, and the Harvey HW615 Pro

A buddy of mine recently got the Harvey Alpha A15 (the one with the computer screen) and he loves it. I haven't stopped by to see it yet but he brought the Big Eye Fence by for me to see. If the Alpha is built like that fence, then it's worth the expense. But the deeper capacity of the LT18 cannot be ignored either. Difficult decision. Perhaps the solution is to increase the space of your workshop to fit both?

 

[jeffinsgf]

I've been feeling more and more like this about bandsaws. Just so much easier to keep them set up for a single operation. And the nice thing about the FOG Family is that you guys make it seem downright typical and expected to have six bandsaws, two table saws and fourteen routers setup and ready to use at a moment's notice!

That's where I am. My big INCA has a 7/8" blade on it, always ready to rough rip or resaw. The little INCA has a 3/16" blade on it always ready to cut a curve.

 

[Malinois Dad]

I spent a lot of time last six months or so as I plan to replace my basic 10" bandsaw with a quality one mainly for resawing. After going through all the standard pedestrian offerings, I went through the SCM's which I thought were just way too expensive plus I'd be required to get an electrician to hard wire a single phase bandsaw (yes, they're hardwired!).

I ended up stuck between the Laguna 18BX which has 405mm resaw capability and 32mm wide blade, and the Harvey HW615 Pro which is a truly beautiful machine with all the bells and whistles, but is around 25% more expensive, slightly less resaw capability at 355mm, and max 25mm blade. I had planned to get it late last year, but I'm holding off until later this year as I still can't quite decide if I want the exceptional build quality of the Harvey, or the sheer power and capability of the Laguna.

If any really good sales come up they may have an impact on my decision.

What is it you plan to really use the bandsaw for the most?

I too have a basic 10" saw, a Rikon 10-361 I think. It works well enough, especially after i replaced the factory bearings with better quality aftermarket bearings. However, i quickly realized the limitations of the small bandsaw. I found a small local sawmill that offers great pricing and very nice lumber, but I lack any real ability to process rough lumber in larger quantities. My first inclination is to buy new machines but everything I read on this forum gives me pause on doing that. May go back to browsing Marketplace for good used machines.

Unfortunately, I have nowhere to go with any large machines right now. My workshop is in disarray, and I am using it as a staging area for materials while I am installing my new HVAC system in my house and workshop. I am growing tired of brazing connections in over 400' of copper refrigerant pipe and looking forward to cutting wood again.

 

[jeffinsgf]

Is it a particular fault or a series of faults that piss you off when using it? . Bandsaws have to be tuned, no matter who makes them. once the Stack Up of Tolerances gets out of whack, they are not fun to use until corrected. Fit and Finish would be a whole another issue- which surprises me, I usually see pretty decent paint work on Jet and Powermatic machines.

Let's see. The table isn't flat. The inside extension table won't stay in alignment to the main table...which isn't flat. The factory-installed Carter automatic blade tensioning doo-dad has never worked and makes it more difficult to manual tension than if it wasn't in the way. The upper wheel casting is so rough that I need gloves to spin the wheel to check tracking. To me it seems the dust port is in the oddest and least efficient place it could have been fit. That's what I mean by "fit and finish". Not too picky about paint.

 

[leakyroof]

Let's see. The table isn't flat. The inside extension table won't stay in alignment to the main table...which isn't flat. The factory-installed Carter automatic blade tensioning doo-dad has never worked and makes it more difficult to manual tension than if it wasn't in the way. The upper wheel casting is so rough that I need gloves to spin the wheel to check tracking. To me it seems the dust port is in the oddest and least efficient place it could have been fit. That's what I mean by "fit and finish". Not too picky about paint.

Is there a production date on this machine- was just curious when it was built- And yeah, sounds like a handful if main items you listed are incorrect in spec and function.