DF500 - DF700

[Boski]

I have the DF500 and Lamello Zeta P2. The DF500 isn't getting much use and is near immaculate.

Im considering selling it and getting the Df700.

I haven't seen many reviews on the DF700, more the 500.

What's the general consensus on here for DF700 for larger furniture?

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I bought the DF700 first...why? Because at the time it was the best machine for what I was building then where I really needed the beefy 14mm tenons and the 14mm connectors. It's a great tool; not lightweight, but it does what it's supposed to do. I did by the Seneca adapter to be able to use the smaller DF500 cutters and Dominos but never really employed them with the bigger tool. Not long ago, I was able to get a great deal on a pre-owned (and barely used) DF500 and that's now going to come in handy for some projects I have coming where it's more appropriate for the scale.

So...they are both great tools. Consider what you intend to use the tool for as it's key for selecting one or the other. Yes, the bigger machine can do the small stuff, but it's more cumbersome and that's best for "occasional" use, IMHO. Routine use of the smaller tenons is best served by the smaller machine.

 

[smorgasbord]

The DF500 isn't getting much use and is near immaculate. ...
What's the general consensus on here for DF700 for larger furniture?

It's great, don't hesitate any longer.

OK, you probably want more, so here goes:
The DF700 was introduced after the DF500, and has a number of improvements from Festool:
1) There are 3 referencing paddles on each side of the bit, not just 1.
2) The paddles lock out of the way individually without tools.
3) The height block is calibrated to the center of the bits, not the DF500's crazy "thickness of stock into which the bit would be half-way" height block.
4) There are two depth stops so for corner joints (and the connector usage), you can set one for milling into the faces and one for deeper milling into the ends. Makes that too deep into the face mistake less likely.
5) It's got a real handle, you don't have to figure out how to best grip the body to apply smooth even pressure to plunge.
6) The base/bottom and screw holes are the same dimensionally, so anything that attaches to that (eg Big Foot) still works. The cross stops also work (need to flip the pin thingie around, but that's easy peasy).

On the downside, it's heavier and more expensive.

I bought the Seneca bit adapter to be able to run DF500 dominos. I've used it once for 6mm dominos and it was OK. I bought both the DF500 and DF700 domino assortments in systainers. Those DF500 dominos are so cute! But, for me anyway, special purposed.

OK, I've probably started a storm. The "general consensus" is to get/keep the DF500. But remember, that's coming from people building things out of sheet goods or 4/4 lumber at most. If you make kitchen cabinets for a living you want the DF500 (assuming you actually want to use dominos for those). If you work with plywood/mdf all the time you want the DF500. But, if you're building furniture (and I don't mean just bookcases), then you're probably working with thicker stock a lot of the time and so you really do want the DF700. Even a lot of indoor furniture uses 5/4 or 6/4, and with anything like a chair and you'll want something more substantial than the not even 1" tenon projection into the wood you get with the DF500. Like I said, those DF500s dominos are cute.

With the DF700, you can run any 8mm domino, just like the DF500. If you really need/want the 6mm for sheet goods then the Seneca adapter works pretty well as long as you don't plunge too quickly. If you do things like picture frames or need the 5mm and 4mm sizes, then you might be pushing it to wrastle the DF700 with those bits. I haven't tried the 5mm/4mm bits yet.

But, if you're doing chairs, beds, couches, especially if you work with solid wood instead of sheet goods, the DF700 shines. And the 6mm domino isn't a problem for when you use 4/4 stock or 18mm sheet goods.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I bought the DF700 first as well and used it for many years on numerous projects before buying the DF500 when on a promo for very small stuff.

It is absolutely sensational and I couldn't recommend it highly enough. If I had to choose, the DF700 would win hands down every time. I also find the DF700 a lot more ergonomic and easier to handle than the DF500 due to the weight and great design.

On a side note I recently got a Zeta myself, what an unbelievable and amazing tool! ;-)

 

[cpw]

I had the 500 for years before I bought the 700 for making doors.  For thicker stock you can often use 2 tenons that are each about 1/5 of the piece, with 1/5 on the outside and 1/5 in the middle.  They are both great machines, but while the 700 improved some of the setup it is is definitely bulkier.

If you work with 3/4" (finished) stock, I would not get the 700.  The 500 has a base to center dimension of 10mm, the 700 has a base to center dimension of 15mm.  I very much prefer referencing off of the base instead of the fence where possible (or sometimes doing 1/2 the cut with the base and the other half with the fence).  If you use a 700, you won't be able to do that with thinner material.  For thicker material you can shim the base up if necessary.

 

[smorgasbord]

I've read a lot here on FOG and other places about potential issues with the DF500's fence - either alignment or drift. I don't know what's different on the DF700, but I've not experienced any issues there and haven't read about other people having DF700 fence issues either. I wonder if some/most of the DF500's owners preference for using the base (including the Seneca aftermarket "Domniplates" that attach to the base) is because of the sometimes problematic DF500 fence? Even Seneca's blurb for its Domniplate mentions the DF500 drift as a reason to buy:

....#1 best selling aftermarket accessory for the Festool Domino DF 500 because of how it speeds setup and also its ability to save you time and money by preventing joint alignment errors caused by "fence drift"

With the DF700's fence in stock form can you get to the center of a 20mm board (10mm spacing), same as using the base on the DF500, and that's a fine spacing for 6mm dominos in 18mm boards (actually preferable as it enforces not mixing up faces). If you want to center on thinner material than that, you can use something like a Seneca Domniplate or DockPlate or DomniShim, or just make your own 10mm thick spacer for the fence.

 

[luvmytoolz]

So far as I'm aware the fence issues were simply the locking handles needing to be adjusted/tightened. You can buy aftermarket locking handles that allow you to rotate the handle to tighten harder.

 

[Cheese]

Here's Festool's recommendations for use...this may be of some help.

Personally, I enjoy using the DF 700 more because the controls and adjustments are more ergonomic, but it is a LOT larger and heavier. Perfection would be the DF 500 size with DF 700 controls.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

 

[Boski]

The responses have been amazing, this forum has not let me down

Now I need to sell my DF500 and get on board with the 700.

I can't see myself using anything else for sheet goods apart from the lamello as its such a amazing tool. The only draw back is the price of connectors.

The DF700 seems to cover a lot of ground, so think it will be ideal, I didn't actually realise it was an improved version of the 500!.

Lots of great information and that chart is very informative.

Thanks all

 

[Crazyraceguy]

It's not really an improved version. It's a later designed complimentary version, that received some improvements/changes during the design phase. They overlap a little, but are really intended for very different things.

 

[luvmytoolz]

I can't see myself using anything else for sheet goods apart from the lamello as its such a amazing tool. The only draw back is the price of connectors.

This might help:
https://www.festoolownersgroup.com/other-tools-accessories/lamello-zeta-project/

 

[Ebuwan]

I had the 700 first, I was making closet doors. I went with 700 for the bigger and with the thought that ok, i'll buy that seneca adapter for the smaller tenons.

It worked, but man it's heavy

I eventually got the 500 and use that 99% of the time.

Sounds like you use the lamello a lot more instead of the 500.

So in short, yes, I used the 700 for years with the Seneca adapter without issues.

 

[smorgasbord]

Before buying my DF700, I looked over the kinds of M&T joints and router-cut loose tenon joints I had cut over several years.

None of the mortises were less than an inch deep. The DF500's max depth of cut is about an inch deep. Almost. The longest stock size for the 6mm dominos is 40mm, so DOC would only be 20mm.

For sheet goods, fine. For solid wood furniture and cabinetry, not so well suited, IMHO. It's part of the reason I upside to 8mm in 4/4 stock, but ideally I'd like a 7mm size that could do 35mm deep on each side. I seem to be unique in that desire, however.

 

[smorgasbord]

So far as I'm aware the fence issues were simply the locking handles needing to be adjusted/tightened. You can buy aftermarket locking handles that allow you to rotate the handle to tighten harder.

Another potential solution:

 

[squall_line]

None of the mortises were less than an inch deep. The DF500's max depth of cut is about an inch deep. Almost. The longest stock size for the 6mm dominos is 40mm, so DOC would only be 20mm.

Max depth of plunge is 28mm?

The D8 knockdown connectors use 28/15 matings, I believe.

 

[derekcohen]

The responses have been amazing, this forum has not let me down

Now I need to sell my DF500 and get on board with the 700.

I can't see myself using anything else for sheet goods apart from the lamello as its such a amazing tool. The only draw back is the price of connectors.

The DF700 seems to cover a lot of ground, so think it will be ideal, I didn't actually realise it was an improved version of the 500!.

Lots of great information and that chart is very informative.

Thanks all

I do not agree that the DF700 is an improved version of the DF500. They are designed to do different tasks. One for small-to-medium sized work (such  as most furniture), and the other for medium-to-large sized work (such as tables and doors, where deep and large tenons are required).

Choose the tool which you will use 90% of the time. That may be a biscuit cutter.

Regards from Perth

Derek

 

[Jim_in_PA]

I do not agree that the DF700 is an improved version of the DF500. They are designed to do different tasks. One for small-to-medium sized work (such  as most furniture), and the other for medium-to-large sized work (such as tables and doors, where deep and large tenons are required).

Choose the tool which you will use 90% of the time. That may be a biscuit cutter.

I agree with you Derek. That's why I started with the DF700. I do have a DF500 now thanks to a "hardly used" deal and have some new uses where the smaller format will come in handy.

 

[ChuckM]

Choosing a DF500 and a DF700 is not easy, and as some have argued, get both if you can afford to.

If you're physically strong, you can live with a DF700 and the adapter kit to do everything small and big. No problem there -- at least not until you get old [tongue].  If you do own or have used a TS75 and complain it's too heavy compared to the TS55, then using the DF700 for everything wouldn't be right for you.

I'm working on a new project that will soon see me milling close to 600 4mm mortises. I can tell you that even with the DF500, I'm dreading... I don't have arms like Popeye.

If your main interest and focus will be on entrance doors and big benches or really large builds, the DF700 should be your choice. The DF500 can do a lot of typical solid furniture pieces, including dining tables and chairs, with double and/or twin tenons (a lot really depend on your designs), but it does have its limitations.