DIY MFT Question

[DIY WoodWerx]

I'm a newbie to woodworking and took a stab at making my own Mft/3 top.  In the end all looked well and aligned but the 20mm holes were off.  If I put a drywall square to a row of holes, I can see them gradually drift from a straight line.  I took a full 4x8 sheet of MDF from Home Depot to make this top.  Is it possible the sheet wasn't squared?  Should I have trimmed the edges first?  What process should I have done to make the sheet square before drilling the holes?  What tools do more experienced guys use to square a sheet of material?  I was thinking of investing in the TSO GRS-16 square for my rail. 

 

[Atonwa]

Just to make you feel better I made this mistake on my first shop cabinet. Used the GRS-16 to make all my cuts so everything was square except the factory edge which wasn't  [blink]. Same deal from the Home Depot, I don't usually use a factory edge but was trying to utilize the whole sheet on this.

I used the GRS-16 to trim the factory edges square and work from there on the rest.

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

Thanks for the quick response.  I guess it's time to invest in t he TSO then.  Any other measuring tool I should invest in?  I have regular drywall t square and carpenter squares.

 

[HarveyWildes]

I had a great experience with Peter Parfitt's guides for making an MFT top.  The resulting grid was perfect, as was the size of the holes.

 

[Dane]

I'd say the Woodrave MFT jig is by far the easiest way to build one accurately.  Only 40.00.  The hole pattern isn't the same as the MFT, but I don't think that has much of an impact on anything.  If you do a search for "Woodrave" on the site, you can see how it works.

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

I had a great experience with Peter Parfitt's guides for making an MFT top.  The resulting grid was perfect, as was the size of the holes.

I'm looking into that right now actually.  Watching his YouTube videos.  Maybe between that and the TSO everything will come out nice and square.  Figured I need the TSO to square the edges then start the Peter Parfitt guide

 

[Atonwa]

Thanks for the quick response.  I guess it's time to invest in t he TSO then.  Any other measuring tool I should invest in?  I have regular drywall t square and carpenter squares.

This is a slippery slope just like your Festool tools....I love my Woodpeckers scales and T-Squares but you better sit down when you add them to your cart and see the final price of measuring tools. I justified that my daughter will have these handed down and can pass them onto her kids as the family heirloom from Dad  [wink]

I have some Incra items I use that are priced a little more reasonable.

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

Thanks for the quick response.  I guess it's time to invest in t he TSO then.  Any other measuring tool I should invest in?  I have regular drywall t square and carpenter squares.

This is a slippery slope just like your Festool tools....I love my Woodpeckers scales and T-Squares but you better sit down when you add them to your cart and see the final price of measuring tools. I justified that my daughter will have these handed down and can pass them onto her kids as the family heriloom from Dad  [wink]

I have some Incra items I use that are priced a little more reasonable.

I'm finding that out quickly.  Only good thing is resale one Festool and Woodpecker tools seem to be pretty good.  Has me thinking though, do I get the tools and make the top myself, or just invest in the Festool MFT/3 kit.  I'm a newbie so was thinking I need a fence on my workbench for repetitive cuts.  Is there a way to use a basic MFT with no fence and just parf dogs and have a setup for repetitive cuts?

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

I'd say the Woodrave MFT jig is by far the easiest way to build one accurately.  Only 40.00.  The hole pattern isn't the same as the MFT, but I don't think that has much of an impact on anything.  If you do a search for "Woodrave" on the site, you can see how it works.

Thanks.  I don't currently have a a handheld router. My only router is in my router table and its a big Porter Cable 7518.  Looks like for the woodrave jig I need to invest in a handheld plunge router.  Looks like either the woodrave or Peter Parfitt setups need a good square start, so looks like the TSO is needed regardless.  Then it's a matter of drilling holes with a plunge router or drill.

 

[Atonwa]

I'm finding that out quickly.  Only good thing is resale one Festool and Woodpecker tools seem to be pretty good.  Has me thinking though, do I get the tools and make the top myself, or just invest in the Festool MFT/3 kit.  I'm a newbie so was thinking I need a fence on my workbench for repetitive cuts.  Is there a way to use a basic MFT with no fence and just parf dogs and have a setup for repetitive cuts?

This is pretty much TSO's market, being able to use a basic MFT table with accessories. Check out these:

Dogs and Accessories

Precision Triangles

My review

Now overall you'll spend more than just buying the set but you will end up with some dogs eventually anyway.

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

I'm finding that out quickly.  Only good thing is resale one Festool and Woodpecker tools seem to be pretty good.  Has me thinking though, do I get the tools and make the top myself, or just invest in the Festool MFT/3 kit.  I'm a newbie so was thinking I need a fence on my workbench for repetitive cuts.  Is there a way to use a basic MFT with no fence and just parf dogs and have a setup for repetitive cuts?

This is pretty much TSO's market, being able to use a basic MFT table with accessories. Check out these:

Dogs and Accessories

Precision Triangles

My review

Now overall you'll spend more than just buying the set but you will end up with some dogs eventually anyway.

Thanks.  Will check it out.  I guess my confusion which led to my question of using parf dogs for repetitive cuts is....
For example:  Lets say I need 5 pieces cut at 23 inches.  Lets say the 23 inches doesn't fall where I can place a parf dog for the piece to rest up against.  How do people do repetitive cuts with just parf dogs and no fence and flip down stop?

 

[Atonwa]

I either get out my Festool MFT rail with the flip stop and go about aligning it on the table (which takes a bit) or I make a spacer that is the correct width to make up the difference to a pair of dogs and clamp it to the table.

It all depends on how many I have to do if it's worth the time to set up the MFT.

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

I either get out my Festool MFT rail with the flip stop and go about aligning it on the table (which takes a bit) or I make a spacer that is the correct width to make up the difference to a pair of dogs and clamp it to the table.

It all depends on how many I have to do if it's worth the time to set up the MFT.

Thanks for that clarification.  Do you find the festoon MFT/3 a good size or wish it were longer?

 

[Atonwa]

Thanks for that clarification.  Do you find the festoon MFT/3 a good size or wish it were longer?

Depends on what your planning to build. I tend to do larger items so it's always just too short usually and I end up using an outfeed support for my tablesaw.

I was able to find a pair of Festool ~6 1/2' MFT long rails that aren't available in the US and a discounted KAPEX MFT so I'm building my own using the combination of parts here shortly. Actually heading to a large CNC tomorrow to have the top cut from MDO.

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

Thanks for that clarification.  Do you find the festoon MFT/3 a good size or wish it were longer?

Depends on what your planning to build. I tend to do larger items so it's always just too short usually and I end up using an outfeed support for my tablesaw.

I was able to find a pair of Festool ~6 1/2' MFT long rails that aren't available in the US and a discounted KAPEX MFT so I'm building my own using the combination of parts here shortly. Actually heading to a large CNC tomorrow to have the top cut from MDO.

My planned projects will consists of dressers, bathroom vanity, closet, side tables, etc.  I don't have room for a nice size table saw so that's why I went with the track saw.  I did call around some sign shops to CNC a top and they wanted $300 and up.

 

[Gregor]

My planned projects will consists of dressers, bathroom vanity, closet, side tables, etc.  I don't have room for a nice size table saw so that's why I went with the track saw.  I did call around some sign shops to CNC a top and they wanted $300 and up.

In case you might have the need at some point for shelving holes: think about a holey rail, the LR-32 and a small router (like the 1010).
This would give you the means of generating MFT tops in any dimension you need. Could even be cheaper as a one-trick pony (get it, make your worktops, sell it off used - unless you decide to keep it) compared to a CNC shop for the worktop you want.

Is there a way to use a basic MFT with no fence and just parf dogs and have a setup for repetitive cuts?

Lets say I need 5 pieces cut at 23 inches.  Lets say the 23 inches doesn't fall where I can place a parf dog for the piece to rest up against.  How do people do repetitive cuts with just parf dogs and no fence and flip down stop?

For this you would measure the 23 inches on the first workpiece, use the dogs to square the rail aligned to the mark and then clamp a cutoff behind the workpiece (so you can exchange it with the next after the cut without changing the position of the rail, effectively using the two dogs you put your workpiece against as the back fence of the MFT).

 

[DIY WoodWerx]

My planned projects will consists of dressers, bathroom vanity, closet, side tables, etc.  I don't have room for a nice size table saw so that's why I went with the track saw.  I did call around some sign shops to CNC a top and they wanted $300 and up.

In case you might have the need at some point for shelving holes: think about a holey rail, the LR-32 and a small router (like the 1010).
This would give you the means of generating MFT tops in any dimension you need. Could even be cheaper as a one-trick pony (get it, make your worktops, sell it off used - unless you decide to keep it) compared to a CNC shop for the worktop you want.

That's an idea I was playing with.  I was actually looking into the LR32 and the 1400 router.  Some say the 1400 is better off for rabbets and dadoes.  Have to do my reviews on the 1010 vs 1400.  I know there are cheaper alternatives for shelf pins, like the Kreg unit, but nothing seems to come out as clean as the Festool system.  Maybe it was just the one time I used the Kreg or I did something wrong, but the holes didn't look as nice compared to ones I've seen done with the LR32 system.  Right now torn whether to make my own top or just buy a MFT/3 replacement top, use it on some saw horses for now and get rolling with some parf dogs and clamps.  My concern is whether the MFT/3 top is a good size or do I need larger. 

 

[Svar]

What process should I have done to make the sheet square before drilling the holes?

If you don't want to buy expensive trinkets, lay out right angle using trammel and measuring tape. Trim. Compare diagonals to each other and opposite sides (in case it its an isosceles trapezoid) as a final check.

 

[cpw]

I'm not sure if you actually need the top to be square; just the holes need to be square to each other.  But if you have a square pattern of holes, you should be able to get the sides cut to reference the square hole pattern using dogs + a rail (and spacers).

 

[Getmaverick]

I had a local guy CNC mine for $60.00. Download the forms from TSO and call some large cabinet shops that use CNC.
you may have to wait awhile but its not going to cost you $300.00.