Do I need both Brilliant 2 220 and 240?

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kcasser

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I've SEARCHED for the last half hour and can't find an answer.  I have an RTS 400 and lots of sandpaper, and now I'm wondering do I really need Brilliant 220 and 240?  Aren't they close enough to eliminate one or the other?  Is each suited to a different industry?  I make frames of poplar from scratch and finish them with glossy black lacquer, so I like very smooth wood, but I also like saving time.  I understand that it isn't efficient to skip grits, but in this case I'm wondering why Festool offers both 220 and 240.  Thank you for your advice!  :)
 
kcasser said:
I've SEARCHED for the last half hour and can't find an answer.  I have an RTS 400 and lots of sandpaper, and now I'm wondering do I really need Brilliant 220 and 240?  Aren't they close enough to eliminate one or the other?  Is each suited to a different industry?  I make frames of poplar from scratch and finish them with glossy black lacquer, so I like very smooth wood, but I also like saving time.  I understand that it isn't efficient to skip grits, but in this case I'm wondering why Festool offers both 220 and 240.  Thank you for your advice!  :)
Click to expand...

The grits are too close to make any real difference.  It would be better to figure out the next courser grit and the next finer grit in your sandpaper collection to see how far you're jumping in grits.
 
Thanks, Ken. I have what they have.  i.e., I go Rubin 120, 150, 180, Brilliant 220, 240, 320, 400, but I usually stop at 320 for the frames.  I guess the 240 is closer to the center between 180 and 320, so I'll stick with that.  I still don't understand why they would make both grits, but maybe they have 220 because a lot of people stop there, and 240 for those who go 180/240/320 and up?
 
kcasser said:
Thanks, Ken. I have what they have.  i.e., I go Rubin 120, 150, 180, Brilliant 220, 240, 320, 400, but I usually stop at 320 for the frames.  I guess the 240 is closer to the center between 180 and 320, so I'll stick with that.  I still don't understand why they would make both grits, but maybe they have 220 because a lot of people stop there, and 240 for those who go 180/240/320 and up?
Click to expand...

Different people like or are used to different grits.  Also depends on the distance in grit size between their other papers and some product manufacturers will recommend a certain grit size.  240 seems like a good choice in your mix and it's what I would choose.
 
I'll bet the admonition to not "skip a grit" began when there where only a few choices, coarse, medium, and fine.
Skipping among those few would be bad. Then they added very coarse and very fine. And super fine and super coarse
and decided to start numbering the grits.

Now there are so many grits available that the difference from one to the next is insignificant.
The effective abrasive range in a single sheet is greater depending on if it is new or worn than the difference
in effective abrasive from the example, 220 or 240.

I've settled on an abrasive collection in steps of 50%. For example, if my final grit before finish is applied
will be 220 the prior grit will have been 150 and before that I'll have used 100 (or 120 if that is all I have).

Here is a range that includes 240.  60-80-120-180-240-400(or 320)

This is my usual range.....  100-150-220-320. These are significant steps so I use a fresh abrasive to begin
each step to be sure that the existing scratches are removed. To be sure enough time has been spent I scribble
all over the work with a very soft pencil before each step. When all traces of the pencil are gone I move on
to the next grit in my range.

Some people apply finish after 120. Some go to 400 first. With so many choices you just have to find what
works for your method.
 
Thank you for the detailed reply - very informative!  These things seem simple, but when I'm sanding twenty-four frames at a time by hand, I want to be sure I do a great job, but without wasting time or resources.  I have started doing the 'pencil' trick and it's saved me a ton of time.  One of my bugaboos has been trying to get a perfectly smooth surface after spraying the lacquer, but so far I always end up with grain showing through whether I shoot three coats or six.  My customer doesn't object to the grain, and doesn't want to spend more, so I haven't added steps to the process such as applying gesso or wood filler, but I'd sure like to minimize that grain pattern before spraying if I could.
 
Interesting! I haven't tried that.  Do you just wipe it in?  How much sanding do you do before applying the filler (to what grit)?  Since I'm spraying black primer and black lacquer, I would think the color of the filler wouldn't matter?  Thank you for the tip.

Ken
 
Just sand to something like 180-220, then using a squeegee and work the grain filler into small sections wiping off excess.  Let dry and sand as normal.  The color only matters if you want a natural finish to show through.  The water based material dries faster and is a one component product.
 
Sounds like work.  ::)  I've tried to use this white stuff that comes in a yellow tube (I don't have it here and can't remember the name), but I didn't like it very much. It dried fast and didn't get very smooth, but I probably wasn't working with it correctly. Either way, it seemed like an awful lot of work to get it smooth. Would the waterbase be better?
 
The water based grain filler is the one I'm referring to.  Not a lot of work.  It goes pretty quickly.  Spread on, wipe off.  Spread on, wipe off.  Let dry a couple of hours.  Sand.  Sorry.  No video, but maybe a song to go with it.  [big grin]  You should just need one coat of the filler.  It's thick stuff.

 
It says on my can of filler to use wet/dry sandpaper 280 prior to filler application and after 2 hours of the filler drying, then finish off with 320 prior to staining or topcoating.  240 grit should be fine to substitute for 280 grit and don't worry about the wet/dry sandpaper if you're using the Festool paper.  They don't mean to wet the sandpaper.  They're just referring to a type of sandpaper when they say wet/dry (w/d).
 
Eliminating grain can be labor intensive and if the client doesn't mind it...

The deeper the grain the thicker the prime coat needs to be and usually you need two coats.
I just learned today about a product designed to eliminate grain. Swedish Putty is knifed or troweled on and sanded the next day.
If a trowel isn't suitable they also have Brushing Putty.

I haven't tried either but the company's products are highly regarded.

For something less pricey ScottB mentioned a Benjamin Moore primer that sands easily.
 
For tamer grained domestic woods you don't need to have such small increments in your sanding regime.  But for Exotics, woods with crazy grain patterns or composite materials it is almost always best to go through each grit methodically.  Jumping grits in that material will surely leave marks or just won't produce a finish that 'pops'.  DAMHIKT
 
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