Do you have license to own that 3D Printer?

[Packard]

PC Magazine (UK) was referencing House Bill 2320 which aims to regulate 3D printer files and the printers in hopes of controlling ghost guns. If it goes through, then all that they have to do is contact vendors of 3D printers and subpoena and seek their sales files.

While it is easier just to regulate new sales, that would not mean that current owners immune from government meddling.

https://www.pcmag.com/opinions/the-governments-ghost-gun-battle-is-taking-aim-at-something-much-bigger

Washington State in March quietly crossed a line that may seem small on paper but feels significant to me—a longtime member of the 3D-printing community—in practice. With the passage and signing of House Bill 2320, the state didn’t just target untraceable firearms. It reached upstream into the ecosystem that makes them possible, regulating digital firearm files, restricting their distribution, and explicitly pulling 3D printers and CNC machines into the legal framework.

I had a friend who made zip-guns that fired .22 ammo, using small scraps of wood, rubberbands and the aluminum turbing that was used in rooftop TV antennas. (The inside dimension was exactly o.220” and the O.D was a tight interference fit in a 1/4” diameter hole drlled into a piece of wood. The aluminum + the wood was sufficient to withstand the chamber pressures of a .22.

It was easy to make, illegal, but not sufficiently murderous to get the attention of Congress.

 

[onocoffee]

As an average homeowner, does it really behoove me to print a PLA (or PETG) gun?

I'd rather print a DF700.

 

[luvmytoolz]

As an average homeowner, does it really behoove me to print a PLA (or PETG) gun?

I'd rather print a DF700.

Or the DF500 with the new D handle!

 

[Packard]

The point of the article was that they are going to require you to apply for a license in order to buy a 3D printer.

Or maybe require you to work online so they can monitor your usage.

In the 1970s, a machinist on Long Island was arrested for making 22 caliber zip guns that looked like pens. They caught him when a cop went undercover as a buyer. But that was a unique situation where the seller had specific skills and access to a lathe and a milling machine.

But it is easier now, and the guns are better and more deadly than that single shot .22 that the machinist was producing.

 

[WillAdams]

Firearms manufacture is already controlled:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/privately-made-firearms

and certain localities such as NYC already have additional laws in place, and further note that manufacturing a firearm is further encumbered by the current BATF interpretation of any manufacture and later sale as a thought-crime.

That said, the relevant Amendments are the 1st and 2nd (and to a lesser degree, the 4th), and the math arguably should be:

1st Amendment + 2nd Amendment == The Right to 3D Print and Bear Arms

 

[Packard]

Firearms manufacture is already controlled:

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/privately-made-firearms

and certain localities such as NYC already have additional laws in place, and further note that manufacturing a firearm is further encumbered by the current BATF interpretation of any manufacture and later sale as a thought-crime.

That said, the relevant Amendments are the 1st and 2nd (and to a lesser degree, the 4th), and the math arguably should be:

1st Amendment + 2nd Amendment == The Right to 3D Print and Bear Arms

There are a whole slew of requirements that must be met if you intend to manufacture firearms. (Plus you will probably want to have liability insurance.)

You need a Type 07 Federal Firearms License. From a 3-D printer perspective, the most onerous requirement is “permanent unique serial number”. I’m not sure how you would make it permanent.

I live in New York State, and they have additional manufacturing requirements.

Type 07 FFL Requirements | Firearm Manufacturer License

Learn the complete Type 07 FFL requirements for firearms manufacturing. Get expert compliance guidance from FFLGuard to navigate federal licensing and regulations.

www.fflguard.com

 

[onocoffee]

But it is easier now, and the guns are better and more deadly.

Are modern guns truly "more deadly"?

The United States continues to severely restrict gun ownership of true "assault weapons", i.e. fully automatic "machine guns." We've been in a static situation since 1986 when manufacture of machine guns for the public was halted. This has resulted in a marketplace where these guns have reached stratospheric price levels. In modern times, a legally obtained machine gun will readily cost you $20K - and I find it difficult to believe that the collector, with that level of resources, is going to utilize the weapon in an offensive manner - especially after going through the extensive federal background check to be cleared to purchase the weapon.

As such, I don't know if I would categorize modern firearms as "more deadly." What may be argued is that modern ammunition may be "more deadly" due to advancements in projectile design. Otherwise, we're still dealing with the same types of ammunition that have been used for over 100 years.

To note, a friend of mine is a federal agent (non-ice) who was recently telling me that his agency (he's basically Mark Harmon) recently switched to new ammunition that has some sort of better penetration - or something like that. I'm not that into firearms so I didn't really pay that close attention - kind of like my lady-friend when I'm discussing the virtues of the TS 55 FEQ over the EQ.

 

[Sparktrician]

To note, a friend of mine is a federal agent (non-ice) who was recently telling me that his agency (he's basically Mark Harmon) recently switched to new ammunition that has some sort of better penetration - or something like that.

"Better penetration" equates to overpenetration, meaning that more innocents get hurt or killed. The FBI requires that their ammunition penetrate between 12" and 18". I do not accept the current spray-and-pray, dump-the-magazine trend in police shooting. Too many innocents get damaged or die, not to mention property damage.

 

[onocoffee]

I think "better penetration" might be the wrong descriptive. It was something along the lines that the agency had switched ammo to something better - but again, I'm not the person I was 30 years ago, so I didn't really pay attention to the specifics.

Next time I see him, I'll ask again.

 

[WillAdams]

There are a whole slew of requirements that must be met if you intend to manufacture firearms. (Plus you will probably want to have liability insurance.)

You need a Type 07 Federal Firearms License. From a 3-D printer perspective, the most onerous requirement is “permanent unique serial number”. I’m not sure how you would make it permanent.

I live in New York State, and they have additional manufacturing requirements.

Type 07 FFL Requirements | Firearm Manufacturer License

Learn the complete Type 07 FFL requirements for firearms manufacturing. Get expert compliance guidance from FFLGuard to navigate federal licensing and regulations.

www.fflguard.com

An FFL is only needed if one wishes to manufacture new firearms for sale, making a firearm for one's personal use is a distinct activity legally, and does not require a license so long as it complies with local, state, and federal laws:

https://thegunzone.com/do-you-need-an-ffl-to-make-a-firearm/

(I am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice, and if one is concerned about this, then one should have one's attorney consult the BATF.)

 

[Packard]

Are modern guns truly "more deadly"?

My bad. I was comparing the “modern” guns with the paragraph directly above it. I have corrected that. It now reads:

“But it is easier to produce guns now, and the 3-D printed guns are better and more deadly than that single shot .22 that the machinist was producing.”

We should not, or the government should not, overlook the lapses in security that the gun manufacturers have.

Kimber, a maker of high end stainless steel 45 caliber 1911 semi-automatic guns, opened a plant in Yonkers, NY, less than a mile from the company I worked for. They needed a small stamped part for a new gun and I was called to their factory to discuss making it for them. I got a tour of the plant.

I said to the purchasing manager, “If I saw a security lapse at Kimber, would it count towards our company or against us if I pointed it out.” He did not answer that question, but said, “Tell me”.

They had a metal detector that I had to walk through to leave the building, but not to enter the building. They CNC machined their guns from “billet”, that is blocks of stainless steel, not forgings. I told him all I had to do was sneak in an extra billet, and drop it on the production line when no one was looking. And when no one was looking, pick up a fully machined frame and put it in my empty lunch bag and toss it in the dumpster.

Your inventory would show 1,000 blocks of stainless steel in, and 1,000 gun frames out. The extra billet would produce a phantom (or “ghost”) gun. I would only have to pluck it out of the dumpster on the way home.

In any case, I visited the plant a few times later over the next few months, and they never implemented incoming scanning.

I was only in their plant for 5 minutes when I spotted this overlooked liability.

The very same technique was used by airlines stewardesses to steal from the airlines. They would sneak tiny bottles of liquor onto the planes and sell them to the passengers and pocket the cash. The airlines inventory was good, but sales were off.

 

[onocoffee]

The billet idea is a curious one. However, I have to wonder how probable such a risk may be? After all, I would suspect that preparing a properly-sized stainless billet will require some resources, like: the ability to source the stainless, the equipment to cut/machine it into the proper sized billet that could be smuggled into the facility.

I don't know much about machining metal but I suspect that if a worker had the kind of equipment at home to prepare the billet to the proper spec, that person probably has the equipment to machine his own frame?

 

[Packard]

The billet idea is a curious one. However, I have to wonder how probable such a risk may be? After all, I would suspect that preparing a properly-sized stainless billet will require some resources, like: the ability to source the stainless, the equipment to cut/machine it into the proper sized billet that could be smuggled into the facility.

I don't know much about machining metal but I suspect that if a worker had the kind of equipment at home to prepare the billet to the proper spec, that person probably has the equipment to machine his own frame?

There are companies online that will sell blocks of tool steel and stainless steel to size specifications. But it probably cheaper to purchase a length of bar stock and cut the pieces to length and drop it off at a local machine shop. Offer cash and it probably would not go on the books.

You would need to mill all the edges and perhaps face grind the flat top and bottom surfaces. Even manual grinders will have an automatic left/right motion, so semi-automatic. The Government 45 is usually listed as 3/4” thick. That is with the slide and grips attached, so the billet is about 5/8’. The length is about 8” to 9” and the height it about 5” to 6”.

I can easily purchase a 6” x .625” (or .750”) x 144” piece of 304 Stainless. I have a horizontal band saw (ideal for cutting bar stock) that cost about $225.00. So I could present pieces to the local machine shop that were easy to handle.

NOTE: My saw does not have the capacity to cut 6” wide stock. I would have to go up one size ($359.00) to cut those pieces. (House brand for Northern Tool. Generally a modest step up in quality than Harbor Freight’s versions).

 

[WillAdams]

For making (as opposed to manufacturing) a Colt 1911 frame, see:

CNCGUNSMITHING - www.cncguns.com - 1911

it's at least a moderately complicated process, requiring a couple of fixtures. Blueprints and so forth are readily available.

I doubt any machine should would make a complete frame for sale, since that requires an FFL, but an 80% frame wouldn't be an issue:

1911 80 frame - P80 Frames | 80% Glock Pistol Frames, 1911, SS80 & Lone Wolf

1911 80% Frames – In Stock & Ready to Ship | P80s.net Build your own classic sidearm with a 1911 80% frame, now in stock and ready to ship from P80s.net. Designed for custom builders and firearm enthusiasts, our 1911 80% frames offer unmatched craftsmanship, precision machining, and durable...

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