Domino and Pocket Hole Disappointment

[icecactus]

I picked up a Domino 500 before the price increase and it rocks, so much so that I am considering buying the 700 with the 10% off sale for some larger future projects. That said, one of the main reasons I wanted it was for keeping my boards aligned while using pocket screws. I built 5 drawers yesterday using 1/2" baltic birch plywood, dominos and micro pocket screws. Every drawer was off by some amount (face to edge). During dry fit some were off just a tad, but not much and most were dead on. I am about ready to throw out my kreg jig. I cannot get a nice lined up joint for the life of me with the stupid thing, I have tried clamps, no clamps, dominos etc...

I was under the impression that the dominos would keep it aligned. Anyone else have this issue?

 

[deepcreek]

Pocket screws are a great assembly method but precise alignment can be a challenge.

Domino's help with alignment but you still need strong clamping to prevent the screws from pulling things askew.

For drawers, have you considered a drawer lock bit in a router table or better yet a dovetail jig?

 

[SMJoinery]

Got to say I never have any alignment problems with my domino.
I did slightly when I fist started using it because of incorrect face referencing or inconsistent plunges (too fast or pulling up or down) but now they are tight as a drum.
If you are doing face to edge with pocket screws on the face I can't think why your getting it pulling out of alignment.

 

[icecactus]

Pocket screws are a great assembly method but precise alignment can be a challenge.

Domino's help with alignment but you still need strong clamping to prevent the screws from pulling things askew.

For drawers, have you considered a drawer lock bit in a router table or better yet a dovetail jig?

Yeah, I did. I actually did a test with dovetails, and it worked OK. But it was slow, and honestly I didnt feel they were very strong in the 1/2" ply. I also had a lot of chip out. The dominos are quicker, and feel much stronger.

 

[icecactus]

Got to say I never have any alignment problems with my domino.
I did slightly when I fist started using it because of incorrect face referencing or inconsistent plunges (too fast or pulling up or down) but now they are tight as a drum.
If you are doing face to edge with pocket screws on the face I can't think why your getting it pulling out of alignment.

I believe its due to the angle of the pocket hole, it wants to pull down and in towards center of drawer. I was hoping the domino would solve that. But apparently there is a bit of play that it allows the edges to pull about 1/32 out of flush.

It could be completely my fault, maybe I am plunging to fast and/or tilting it slightly while plunging? Creating a slightly larger mortise.

For what its worth, the top and bottom edges of the drawer sides/fronts are perfectly aligned. I would have thought my issue would be there since the mortise is slightly larger then the width of the domino.

 

[SMJoinery]

I hope I'm understanding you correctly....
When I'm using the domino I use the narrow setting for my first mortise for reference etc.
on subsequent mortises I use the narrow setting on one piece at regular spacing small the way across.
On the other piece I use the narrow setting for the first mortise and the middle setting for each subsequent mortises at the spacing all the way across.
This allows me to line up my referenced edges but gives me a little adjustment if I need to.
However this method gives no "play" in the referenced faces and gives a nice tight mortise.
I may be possible  to misalign with a screw etc between my domino spacings but I find the pocket hole jig at such steep an angle that it doesn't pull my faces out of alignment.
I sure do hope this helps.

On a similar point my young apprentice had a go with the domino and tried an edge to edge joint to see how he got on.
When we dry fitted his mortises the joint was poor and we could pull out the domino very easily from the mortise.
When we reviewed his plunging he pressed so firmly on the front handle he ended up slightly lifting the back end of the domino up thus creating a slightly deeper cut. This was enough to misalign the joint and case the domino to displace off centre.
Good luck with it and hope you get things sorted. It's such a great tool!

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

A simple solution is to just rely on the Domino tenon to do its job.  [wink]

I think pocket hole screws in addition to the tenons might be slightly overkill. Glue up a tenon or two in some scrap, let it cure and then try to break it apart. You'll see what I mean.

Unless you're making an indestructible table, but more on that topic another time.

Shane

 

[Stone Message]

A simple solution is to just rely on the Domino tenon to do its job.  [wink]

I think pocket hole screws in addition to the tenons might be slightly overkill.

Unless you're making an indestructible table, but more on that topic another time.

Shane

I was just about to say something like this when Shane's post arrived.

I have done all sorts of things with dominos, including drawers made of MDF, and they have been one of the most accurate and simple methods of joinery going. The Domino approach produces strong joints, even in soft materials, like MDF.

I always use the narrow setting on the DF500, even when there are 8 or 10 dominos along one joint, and everything goes together beautifully. The only time that I would use a wider slot is when there has to be some allowance for subsequent movement of the wood. But at glue-up your domino slot placement should be accurate enough for narrow slots alone - take a look at my pedestal desk video (making the top).

Peter

 

[deepcreek]

In my opinion, pocket screws are essentially clamps.  The bond strength comes from glue.  Domino loose tenons increase the strength and help alignment.

If you have more drawers to assemble than you have clamps, the combination of dominos and pocket screws make sense.

 

[Stone Message]

In my opinion, pocket screws are essentially clamps.  The bond strength comes from glue.  Domino loose tenons increase the strength and help alignment.

If you have more drawers to assemble than you have clamps, the combination of dominos and pocket screws make sense.

I agree but with accurate domino work you only need to clamp for a couple of minutes as the dominos do provide some grip during glue-up. Take a look at the MDF drawers in my mobile bench...

Part 1:



Part 2:



Peter

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

In my opinion, pocket screws are essentially clamps.  The bond strength comes from glue.  Domino loose tenons increase the strength and help alignment.

If you have more drawers to assemble than you have clamps, the combination of dominos and pocket screws make sense.

Agreed. For heavy and long pieces where a pipe clamp won't make it, pocket screws can serve as a quick clamp. Also, 15/16 gauge nailer works. For lighter pieces that are too long, I used to use pocket screws. Now, I use my Grex 23 or 18 gauge.

I recently used 2-1/2" pocket screws for fastening 8 sets of 2x6s to 2x4s.  It was faster and cheaper than using dominos and did the job well. Also, the screws couldn't be seen because they were behind another 2x4.

But, it's a rare day that the pocket screws come out to play...it's almost always dominos, clamps, and glue.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

You really don't need screws. Even the indestructible table only used Domino tenons.  [wink]

 

[NYC Tiny Shop]

Of course, Shane. For something like that table, it would be silly to use pocket screws if you had the Domino machine.

 

[RKA]

LOL!  I'm not going to try that at home (besides, my dog know better than to trust my work)!

 

[icecactus]

In my opinion, pocket screws are essentially clamps.  The bond strength comes from glue.  Domino loose tenons increase the strength and help alignment.

If you have more drawers to assemble than you have clamps, the combination of dominos and pocket screws make sense.

That's primarily why I am using pocket screws. That and I like overkill

I am going to take a guess, that i rocked the domino or something on the plunge or I am getting some fence drift. Its pretty hard to hold the domino steady on 1/2 ply edge.

 

[erock]

In my opinion, pocket screws are essentially clamps.  The bond strength comes from glue.  Domino loose tenons increase the strength and help alignment.

If you have more drawers to assemble than you have clamps, the combination of dominos and pocket screws make sense.

That's primarily why I am using pocket screws. That and I like overkill

I am going to take a guess, that i rocked the domino or something on the plunge or I am getting some fence drift. Its pretty hard to hold the domino steady on 1/2 ply edge.

  Maybe take a look at the Domiplate to help with this?   

Eric

 

[semenza]

  The pocket screw / Domino combination works better alignment wise with the 5mm and larger dominos. The short length of the 4mm is more likely to get pulled  or forced out of alignment (especially in 1/2" plywood) than the longer ones.

Seth

 

[GPowers]

I agree with the other Dominos are all you need.

 

[greg mann]

You really don't need screws. Even the indestructible table only used Domino tenons.  [wink]

If he had taken time for pocket screws the cat would be dead. [doh] [doh] [doh] [scratch chin] [scratch chin]

 

[JeromeM]

In my opinion, pocket screws are essentially clamps.  The bond strength comes from glue.  Domino loose tenons increase the strength and help alignment.

If you have more drawers to assemble than you have clamps, the combination of dominos and pocket screws make sense.

I'm with you on that. Domino for alignment, pocket hole screw for clamping, glue for the permanent join.

Dominos glue and clamps works
Pocket hole screws, glue (and clamps for alignment) works

But if you don't have enough clamps or can't use them then the combination can work well.