Domino DF 500 how much time does it save

[JimD]

I don't have a Domino...yet.  I've never hand cut a mortise and I don't think I ever will.  I've drilled them and then chiseled but I don't think I'll do that again either.  I've cut them with a up-cut spiral bit in a plunge router and I would do that again.  I have some chairs I like that I make with a pattern and plunge cut the mortises off the pattern.  Normally I use my hollow chisel mortiser.  If I had a domino 500, I would probably use the mortiser for bigger mortises.  But the Domino looks like it is quicker and makes mortises as nice as the plunge router, nicer than the mortiser.  It also takes up less space than my hollow chisel mortiser. 

I have a pocket screw jig and used it just today.  I also have a biscuit joiner.  I will continue to use it but not for some of the things I've used it for in the past.  I don't think you need a biscuit joiner if you have a domino.  But I think you will still want a pocket hole jig.  I don't think you will want to see pocket holes in nicer furniture but on painted furniture you can fill the holes and not look at them.  Mainly I use them where they don't show and in shop projects where I don't mind the appearance.  Wood magazine tested joints and said pocket screws were stronger than domino joints which weren't as strong as traditional mortise and tenon.  Their results were at least in part due to the sizes of the parts they tested but I still don't think you need to look down on pocket screws from a strength standpoint.  They are surprising strong - but pretty ugly.  Domino joints are, other than more limited size flexibility, the same as traditional mortise and tenon.  They are slip tenons but that is fine. 

 

[Stone Message]

Hi Jim

I was asked if the Domino DF500 could be used for furniture making and to prove the point I made a chair. As you are into chairs I thought that I would share this with you. I made a video of the whole project:

Part 1:

Part 2:

Part 3:

Peter

 

[grbmds]

I don't have a Domino...yet.  I've never hand cut a mortise and I don't think I ever will.  I've drilled them and then chiseled but I don't think I'll do that again either.  I've cut them with a up-cut spiral bit in a plunge router and I would do that again.  I have some chairs I like that I make with a pattern and plunge cut the mortises off the pattern.  Normally I use my hollow chisel mortiser.  If I had a domino 500, I would probably use the mortiser for bigger mortises.  But the Domino looks like it is quicker and makes mortises as nice as the plunge router, nicer than the mortiser.  It also takes up less space than my hollow chisel mortiser. 

I have a pocket screw jig and used it just today.  I also have a biscuit joiner.  I will continue to use it but not for some of the things I've used it for in the past.  I don't think you need a biscuit joiner if you have a domino.  But I think you will still want a pocket hole jig.  I don't think you will want to see pocket holes in nicer furniture but on painted furniture you can fill the holes and not look at them.  Mainly I use them where they don't show and in shop projects where I don't mind the appearance.  Wood magazine tested joints and said pocket screws were stronger than domino joints which weren't as strong as traditional mortise and tenon.  Their results were at least in part due to the sizes of the parts they tested but I still don't think you need to look down on pocket screws from a strength standpoint.  They are surprising strong - but pretty ugly.  Domino joints are, other than more limited size flexibility, the same as traditional mortise and tenon.  They are slip tenons but that is fine.

[member=45813]JimD[/member] I have cut mortise and tenon joints in many ways (although I do not have a mortiser), including with a drill and chisels plus a table saw, using a router to cut the mortises and a table saw to cut the tenons, cutting the tenons with a bandsaw instead of a table saw, a Leigh FMT (which I still have and want to sell, but it does a great job, and various other combinations of tools.

The Domino does the best and fastest job of any tool(s) I've used. The mortises are the most accurate. The tenons fit the tightest, and I haven't yet found a situation where I can't cut a good Domino joint.

As for strength, the main issues would seem to be:

Length of the tenon and/or width - In some cases, it may require more than one Domino instead of a single longer tenon, but I have not found any strength issues in anything I've done so far.

Tightness of fit - On this issue, the Domino cannot be beat. Every square inch of the gluing surface of the domino itself are in contact with the gluing surface of the mortises.

How you spread the glue - With a Domino, there are a variety of ways to spread the glue, but I've found the joint to be forgiving as to how much glue, which surface it is spread, etc. It doesn't seem to matter too much as long as the glue is available on all mating surfaces.

I think the Domino is just one of those tools that just changes the way you work and allows you to do work which you might either not attempt to might not do quite as well. It's not traditional, but the Domino is my top favorite power tool of all time.

 

[slalom]

I want a Domino, I need a Domino, I can't afford a Domino.  [sad]

I have an advert posted in online classifieds looking for a used Domino, but rarely do they appear and then only with a 20% discount from new and no warranty.

I can and do make tenons with a tenoning saw or with a tenoning jig on my table saw. I have made mortises with chisels and with a mortising attachment on my pillar drill. I have used an industrial dowel boring machine as well as a jig. I make dovetails my hand and with a Leigh jig. I sometimes use pocket screws. I have used a router and jig to make mortises for floating tenons.

None of these methods is as fast and accurate as Dominos. I was convinced while attending a two day long chair-making course at LV. If, no when, I get a Domino I will still make half blind dovetails for drawers and some box joints - because I like how they look, I like the traditional joinery. But the bulk of my joinery will be  with Dominos. I have seen the results. 

 

[JimD]

Peter,

I always enjoy your videos.  Very well done and nice illustrations of Festool tools.  I like your chair but would want a bit more slant backwards in the rear legs - but I understand you were working with the wood you had.

I wasn't trying to suggest Domino joints would be an issue for chairs.  The design I like is from Woodsmith and has small joints that a Domino could easily duplicate.  The Wood test was not fair because they compared Domino joints that were much smaller to conventional mortise and tenons that were much larger.  Guess which won.  But if the conventional are equivalent in size to the Domino, I would expect either no difference or possibly the Domino would be stronger due to better fit.  My only point was that pocket screws are surprisingly strong.  They aren't fine furniture joints but I use them for shop work or where they don't show.

I'll probably own a Domino some day but right now I have other things to buy.  I can get by with my hollow chisel mortiser for the time being.

Jim

 

[DTSaskatoon]

I bought the Domino DF500 with all the extras plus the box of dominos/cutters. I suspect that my Dewalt biscuit joiner will be collecting some dust. I used it for the first time last month and it exceeded my expectations.  The Domiplate is a no brainer and I actually bought it online before I bought my DF500. I like being able to adjust the Domino width and the depth of cut is super easy. My only frustration is making sure that I remember what face I'm using as a reference side but I'll surely resolve my problem by investing in a package of a few hundred stick on coloured dots for a couple of dollars.  I built a small shelf using both the Domino and the LR32 system and learned a lot. Although I got glue in my hair and realized I need some more clamps, the project turned out well in the end. Another great tool!

 

[Holmz]

I want a Domino, I need a Domino, I can't afford a Domino.  [sad]

I have an advert posted in online classifieds looking for a used Domino, but rarely do they appear and then only with a 20% discount from new and no warranty.

I can and do make tenons with a tenoning saw or with a tenoning jig on my table saw. I have made mortises with chisels and with a mortising attachment on my pillar drill. I have used an industrial dowel boring machine as well as a jig. I make dovetails my hand and with a Leigh jig. I sometimes use pocket screws. I have used a router and jig to make mortises for floating tenons.

None of these methods is as fast and accurate as Dominos. I was convinced while attending a two day long chair-making course at LV. If, no when, I get a Domino I will still make half blind dovetails for drawers and some box joints - because I like how they look, I like the traditional joinery. But the bulk of my joinery will be  with Dominos. I have seen the results.

[member=60678]slalom[/member]
There is a lot of beauty in tenons, so if that is what you can do you re different from 90+%.
maybe... just make the decision to be unique and go with it?

Same with dovetails...

Rewards,
GS, SG, & DH

 

[clark_fork]

I want a Domino, I need a Domino, I can't afford a Domino.  [sad]

I have an advert posted in online classifieds looking for a used Domino, but rarely do they appear and then only with a 20% discount from new and no warranty.

I can and do make tenons with a tenoning saw or with a tenoning jig on my table saw. I have made mortises with chisels and with a mortising attachment on my pillar drill. I have used an industrial dowel boring machine as well as a jig. I make dovetails my hand and with a Leigh jig. I sometimes use pocket screws. I have used a router and jig to make mortises for floating tenons.

None of these methods is as fast and accurate as Dominos. I was convinced while attending a two day long chair-making course at LV. If, no when, I get a Domino I will still make half blind dovetails for drawers and some box joints - because I like how they look, I like the traditional joinery. But the bulk of my joinery will be  with Dominos. I have seen the results.

I went from using dowels with an old dowel centering jig to a floating tenon device made by JessEm. .  It was similar to a dowel centering device but by using an electric drill sliding back and forth, it created a floating tenon mortise. JessEm discontinued it and I suspect it had safety issues. My short experience with floating tenons persuaded me to go Domino and it became my first Festool purchase; one that I will never regret. I doubled down on the first purchase and bought the Midi which turned out to be another good decision. Mu biscuit joiner gathers dust.

Because I was fairly fussy with cutting tenons on the table saw and  cutting mortises on my mortise machine, I saw my construction times cut by a whopping 2/3 plus I was more inclined to turn out a small table or desk when and where I needed it because the work was simpler and faster.

The productivity secret is simplifying the mortise and tenon procedure. For now, choose a way-station, start using dowels.

I am impressed with JessEm and their current dowel device. 
http://www.jessem.com/DOWELLING_JIG.html

I am a cheapskate when it comes to buying stuff for myself. I have successfully bought at steep discounts some very good tools on this classified section but you have to act fast and be set up for Pay-Pal. The demographics of hobby woodworking is such that aging takes its toll and those that age out or have health issues move out of woodworking and just want to get the shop cleaned out  and will stand a discount. Make offers when they are posted. Bidding  is not insulting, it is readily accepted here.  Thus opportunity knocks. In the meantime adopt a faster joinery system and when the time comes, you will be set for floating tenon joinery. In planning I would opt for including a dust extractor when the time comes.

Other tips: Adopt a dealer and ask be put on a list for a reconditioned Domino or trade-in. Keep your eye on local Craig List and eBay

Good luck.

 

[Northernlight]

Got mine last week... and wow. Hobbyists like me often have very little time To spend in the workshop. And the domino is s real timesaver. And also a joy to use.

 

[JimD]

This isn't the question of this thread but I've done some calculations and done some more thinking about domino joints.  I think when I get one, it will probably be the 700.  I think the 1 inch depth limitation of the 500 would be an issue for me sometimes.  It would be OK for the chairs I build but not for the apron to leg joint of a table.  Larger chairs could be a problem too.  Doors would be an issue.  But the 700 goes deep enough.  And it can use the smaller cutters of the 500.  It also can use thicker dominos more appropriate for doors (but multiples in the 500 could also work if they were long enough).  I guess it depends on how much bigger furniture you make.  For smaller projects, the 500 would probably be handier, because it's lighter. 

 

[clark_fork]

I agree the 700 is likely more appropriate for door joinery. However, the 500 meets very adequately all my needs for making most furniture. Remember, you are not limited to one tenon.  If you read carefully between the lines, you will  see that FOG participants often admit to using dowels. Recently Woodpecker featured an extravagant dowel jig and now is offering an apple peeler looking device to create custom dowels. I suspect dowel joinery is alive and well and in some cases provides suitable joinery particularly for doors.

Here is one way I have used my Domino. I use these Krenov horses for my MFT assembly table and they take a lot of stress. Many have commented favorably on the Domino 500 providing suitable joinery for a wide variety of applications.

Lastly, at some point someone is going to crack the Festool monopoly on the Domino concept and that may be any day. I don't regret my choice of the 500 and only rarely do I see the need for more robust joinery where dowel joinery or old fashion mortise and tenons would equally suit the occasion.

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[HappyCamper]

I bought the Domino 500 some years back and never used it.  Don't know why not, but when I decided to finally use it on a project and all I could say was WOW.  What is the most valuable part of the Domino for me is not joining pieces but aligning the pieces.  This is something that cannot be easily accomplished with pocket screws.  It also allows for glue free assembly for test fitting. I was surprised at how accurately I could line the work up just using the sight gauge after following Paul Marcel's (a.k.a. Half-inch Shy) calibration video on You Tube. I would also recommend the extra cutters and such instead of the full kit if a choice needs to be made.
I have used pocket holes, and the Dowel Max and both are fine tools, but I much prefer the Domino.  Having said that, I know of several hobbyists that have been making some great pieces with pocket hole joinery.  I also had a biscuit joiner, but shipped that out after buying the Domino. 
Others have pointed to the speed of this tool, and I would confirm their opinions and add that this tool is just plain fun to use.  I really don't know what took me so long to use it.