Domino mortices not horizontal.Anyone seen this before?I still love the thing!

[csmark]

Hello all, I've got a Domino that has seen very very little use even though I acquired it right when they came out and had the discount.  (why they thought they had to offer a deal to get people to buy this is beyond me!) 

The quickest way to explain the problem is that if I put a mortise into the side of a board then flip the board so it is "upside down" and put another mortise right beside it I end up with a very slight V shape instead of an elongated horizontal mortise.  The mortises are off a little bit vertically because of the difference in the thickness of the wood.  At first I thought it might be the surface I was working on so I used the handle to put the mortises in from the top of the wood instead of placing the Domino on the MFT and got the same result.  I haven't cranked on the bit when changing them out.  I know that was/is an issue.  The Domino has not been abused in anyway, no drops or dropping things on it.  I haven't put together more than a hundred joints with the thing and now I'm getting this. 

It really becomes an issue when trying to use a single mortise to make a perpendicular angle between two boards.  The butt end turns out looking like I need to whip out my 60 1/2 Stanley and do some major adjustments. 

I tried searching old posts but got back 100s of hits that I don't quite have time to sift through them all.  Putting Domino and Horizontal in the search box and wow do you get a lot of hits because of the alignment issues of the pins, plastic, and lines that people have had issues with the Domino. 

Any help is greatly appreciated!

CSM

 

[Ted Miller]

Mark, What bit and what depth are trying to mortise.

Are you plunging to fast.

Is the machine resting on the work surface or is the stock hanging off your table a bit...

 

[Dan Lyke]

First thing I'd do is figure out if the fence isn't parallel to the base, or the cutter axis isn't parallel to the base. Seems like you should do two sets of cuts, one using the fence for reference,  the other using the base for reference. That'll tell you if the fence is loose, or if something big is wonked inside the Domino.

Also,  take a set of calipers to your wood and make sure that the two faces of your wood are really parallel, because by definition this is a set of cuts where you're using a different reference for each.

Aaaand, because I've found it way too easy to move too fast with the Domino, are you sure that you don't have sawdust or wood shavings getting under things?

 

[csmark]

All these questions make me want to run out to the shop to make 100% sure what I'm saying is true, but there's no internet there. 

What I do recall for sure is that I'm using the 6x40mm and going 20mm deep.  I'm using ceder and don't think I'm plunging too fast but as I don't know or work with any other Festoolians that could be a possibility.  As for where the machine is resting, I've tried resting it on the surface of my workbench and also putting the handle down and pressing that down from the top of the wood.  The stock is on the table.  I used some 2 to 3 foot scraps to verify what was happening.  I used the MFT Clamping Elements to hold the pieces down as I thought it might be a torque issue. 

I haven't thought of testing the wood, good use for my straight edge and calipers.  I do have at CT33 hooked up and running.  I also give it some warm up time as it really is easy to just hit the switch and go before you have any suction.

I did try using the base and the fence with the same result from each. I just did a really poor job of explaining it in my original post. 

CSM

 

[Spike]

Yep. Seen it. :'(

 

[csmark]

Yep. Seen it. :'(

Any idea on a fix?  If it's not user error that is.

CSM

 

[Spike]

Not fixable unfortunately. Has nothing to do with the fence or user. The cutter from it's extreme left position to it's extreme right position ramps downhill as it oscillates to the right. Not all Dominos do this. All you can do is return it or put some shims under the corner of the fence to compensate for the cutter error.

 

[Bill Wyko]

IMHO I'd contact Festool. They have great customer service.

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Assuming that the fence of the Domino machine is not out of parallel relative to the plane in which the cutter oscillates, it sounds to me like the machine may need to go back to Festool.  If it was my machine, I'd do a test by machining mortices in two pieces of stock clamped against the top of my MFT wth the Domino being referenced off the MFT rather than through the fence of the Domino.  That would enable you to determine if the plane in which the cutter oscillates is parallel to the base of the Domino.  If the sweeping motion is not parallel to the base (and top of the MFT), then the Domino machine definitely needs to go back to Festool for service.

Dave R.

 

[Spike]

Assuming that the fence of the Domino machine is not out of parallel relative to the plane in which the cutter oscillates, it sounds to me like the machine may need to go back to Festool.  If it was my machine, I'd do a test by machining mortices in two pieces of stock clamped against the top of my MFT wth the Domino being referenced off the MFT rather than through the fence of the Domino.  That would enable you to determine if the plane in which the cutter oscillates is parallel to the base of the Domino.  If the sweeping motion is not parallel to the base (and top of the MFT), then the Domino machine definitely needs to go back to Festool for service.

Dave R.

Without any doubt in my mind whatsoever. The sweeping motion of the cutter is NOT parallel to the base or fence of the Domino. This is a widespread issue and is happening in Europe as well. Festool is aware but has no fix available. Not all Domino's exhibit this. I would send them back until you get one that can mortise  parallel to the boards face or edge. I tested 5 Dominos at a store here and all 5 were off.

 

[nickao]

Taos if some work and some don't do you know what the difference is between the two other than the behavior it exhibits? It seems that if you compared a working one to one that did not work properly you could see a difference between the two other than just the final results.

 

[Spike]

Taos if some work and some don't do you know what the difference is between the two other than the behavior it exhibits? It seems that if you compared a working one to one that did not work properly you could see a difference between the two other than just the final results.

Hi Nickao,
I did extensive testing of mine, one Festool sent me, and 5 at a local store. Only one Domino that a friend has did not exhibit this issue and visually /physically that Domino looked no different other than the cutter measuring parallel across it's entire range of motion. All the rest were off by .007" or more.  I believe it to be poor machining, assembly procedures, and maybe faulty vendor parts. The only way I can get parallel cuts is to place 2-4 business cards under the corner of the fold down fence.
I use the Lamello now.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Can you give us a little more info on the numbers in your testing, .007" is less than the average business card.

 

[Spike]

Can you give us a little more info on the numbers in your testing, .007" is less than the average business card.

My mistake Brice.  the cuts are off 0.82mm or .032". I have 10 pictures I can share of the test including one showing 3 business cards under the corner of the fence and the resulting perfectly aligned mortise. If someone can tell me how to load the pics here I'll gladly show you my $800 machine that cannot be used.

 

[Brice Burrell]

Check out the FOG gallery and attaching images section.

 

[Dan Lyke]

Just a sample of one, but I bought my Domino back in the discount period, didn't do any testing on it before I took it home (although it was the only one they had and it had "Demo" stickers on it) and last night I measured some of my mortices cut in some eastern Maple I was working with, 5mm mortices were within a thousandth or so from the side of the block from edge to edge (flat part of the mortise, not trying to figure out where the center of the rounded side was), well in the compressibility of even the relatively hard maple I'm playing with, or errant sawdust under my fence or calipers or whatever.

The .82mm that Taos is claiming is bloody huge, that's over a sixth of the thickness of a 5mm mortise, and given that the two sides of the cut are made opposite and a 5mm Domino is 19mm wide, that means like a 1 in 12 slope, or (and maybe I'm still needing coffee this morning) 5 degrees between two joined boards. Actually, it may be more than that, 'cause the 19mm includes the rounding on both sides, I'm not sure where Taos is measuring his .82mm from.

That's clearly a warranty issue. Or somebody's trolling.

All 6 of those units that exhibited this behavior should have gone back to Festool.

 

[Spike]

Check out the FOG gallery and attaching images section.

I remember this from a while back Brice. My photos are too large to post here. They are all in the 500-600KB size. I have no problems posting pictures at any other forum I am a member of. Why is this?

 

[Brice Burrell]

Check out the FOG gallery and attaching images section.

I remember this from a while back Brice. My photos are too large to post here. They are all in the 500-600KB size. I have no problems posting pictures at any other forum I am a member of. Why is this?

Taos, I'll be happy to resize the photos for you and post them here if you like.

 

[Spike]

I'll email to you Brice.

 

[Spike]

Just a sample of one, but I bought my Domino back in the discount period, didn't do any testing on it before I took it home (although it was the only one they had and it had "Demo" stickers on it) and last night I measured some of my mortices cut in some eastern Maple I was working with, 5mm mortices were within a thousandth or so from the side of the block from edge to edge (flat part of the mortise, not trying to figure out where the center of the rounded side was), well in the compressibility of even the relatively hard maple I'm playing with, or errant sawdust under my fence or calipers or whatever.

The .82mm that Taos is claiming is bloody huge, that's over a sixth of the thickness of a 5mm mortise, and given that the two sides of the cut are made opposite and a 5mm Domino is 19mm wide, that means like a 1 in 12 slope, or (and maybe I'm still needing coffee this morning) 5 degrees between two joined boards. Actually, it may be more than that, 'cause the 19mm includes the rounding on both sides, I'm not sure where Taos is measuring his .82mm from.

That's clearly a warranty issue. Or somebody's trolling.

All 6 of those units that exhibited this behavior should have gone back to Festool.

.82mm is what it takes to correct or shim the Domino to get a parallel mortise. Pics are on their way.