Domino Tenons do not fit in mortise - not even close! Can width be adjusted?

[dnrdhs77]

Greetings all,

I have a new Domino jointer that I bought for a production job and I need to cut 400 joints.

I am having trouble in that none of the beech tenons fit the mortise, regardless of which size tenon I use.  I have the full set of tenons and cutters and none of the tenons fit.

The issue is not so much with the thickness of each tenon, it's the width of the tenon that is too wide.  And by too wide I mean that you need to use a hammer to install them (we're talking about extreme press fit here...)

I know that there are 3 setting for the tenon width, but I need to use the narrowest setting so that I get the joints on different parts to line up; so this isn't about just simply using the 2 wider settings.

I believe that there are two possible problems; either I have a bad supply of tenons in every size or the width of the cut is not properly set up from the factory.

Does anyone know if there is a way to adjust the default setting how wide each mortise is cut?

Thank you,

DNRDHS77

 

[Mirko]

dnrdhs77,

What is the ID of the mortice, check it with calipers? How much oversize is the domino? check that with calipers, then get back to us.

Mirko

 

[chrisrosenb]

Have the dominos been stored in an area with high humidity?
They will swell with high humidity.

 

[MarkF]

May also want to double check that the cutter diameter matches the Domino tenon.

 

[Eli]

I recently discovered that sometimes when the narrowest setting is too narrow, it was because I shifted the size knob while the Domino was not running. Important that this adjustment is made while the power switch is engaged and it is oscillating. Having said this, I (almost) never use the narrow setting. Less assembly drama with the medium width, and it does everything I want it to.

 

[dnrdhs77]

More information....

for the 6x40mm tenon the width is on average 0.040" wider than the mortise (measured 8 sample tenons and mortises)
for the 6x40mm tenon the thickness is on average 0.004" over (0.009" if you allow for 0.005" for a glue joint)

for the 5x30mm tenon the width is on average 0.031" wider than the mortise (measured 8 sample tenons and mortises)
for the 5x30mm tenon the thickness is on average 0.003" over (0.008" if you allow for 0.005" for a glue joint)

5mm cutter measured 0.198" (x 25.4 mm/in = 4.923 mm)
6mm cutter measured 0.233" (x 25.4 mm/in = 5.918 mm)

I only adjust the width when the machine is running

Shop is airconditioned - all stock and Domino tenons are dry, the same temperature, and have been in the shop for 30+ days

It seems possible that the cutters are undersized or that the tenons are too wide...

Thanks again,
DNRDHS77

 

[Warrior]

I love my domino, but I hate the dominoes.
I too have a problem with the tenons fitting too tightly on the narrow setting. A M&T joint should never have to be persuaded. er period. Slip fit, uhmm room for glue. Those are things always said about a traditional M&T joint. Why should the domino be different.

I am making my own dominoes at the moment and when I tire of that I'll order some from Randy. Check out Randy Daniel in the sales zone.

Eiji Fuller

PS. Festool pricing for the exterior grade sipo dominoes is I would have to say INSANE.

 

[Toller]

PS. Festool pricing for the exterior grade sipo dominoes is I would have to say INSANE.

Exterior grade dominoes?!  They would be coated in waterproof glue, so why wouldn't interior ones be fine?

 

[Warrior]

I have read that beech will degrade rapidly even while coated with exterior glue.

 

[Dave Rudy]

DNR,

Could you repost the measurements listing the exact width and height of mortise and width and thickness of tenon?  Maybe Rick or Jerry can tell you which dimensions are out of spec.  If the machine is cutting the mortises correctly, I would try microwaving the dominos even though you have a/c etc and see if that solves the problem.

The other choice is to call David at Festool tech support and get spec for the width and height of the mortises and compare to your chart.  Whether the machine setting or cutter diameters are in or out of spec should be a simple technical question to resolve.  I dont believe that you can change the machine parameters for width or height of mortises.

Since your problem occurs throughout the range of sizes, it is most likely not a cutter issue.  Could be the machine; my guess is the dominoes themselves.

HTH

Dave

 

[Lou Miller]

I got tired very quickly of fighting with the dominoes. I used up most of the ones that came with the systainer and then started making my own. No way I'll ever go back to using the Festool dominoes again. I make mine so they fit snug, but you don't need to fight with them. Mine are tight enough to hold a dry fit together easily, but you don't need pliers to remove them. I'm surprised that only a handful of people on this site make thier own. Its easy to do, more economical, and most importantly, more versatile.

 

[Dan Clermont]

Hey Lou

Do you round the corners on the home made Domino's?

I have played briefly with Mirko's Domino (actually, it was Mirko doing the work) and was surprised at how tight the little buggers were. We had to use pliers to remove them and their were a suction sound when they came out.

Making your own Domino's requires time but gives you the option to use contrasting wood if you wanted to do some through tenon work.

Dan Clermont

 

[bolson]

Somebody on another site gave me the tip of taking a handful of dominos and sanding the faces down a touch and then marking them with a sharpie for dry fitting only.

Works like a charm and then at glue up I just use a fresh domino.  In my hands the glue helps lubricate them during assembly and go together very nicely.

 

[mastercabman]

Greetings all,

I have a new Domino jointer that I bought for a production job and I need to cut 400 joints.

I am having trouble in that none of the beech tenons fit the mortise, regardless of which size tenon I use.  I have the full set of tenons and cutters and none of the tenons fit.

The issue is not so much with the thickness of each tenon, it's the width of the tenon that is too wide.  And by too wide I mean that you need to use a hammer to install them (we're talking about extreme press fit here...)

I know that there are 3 setting for the tenon width, but I need to use the narrowest setting so that I get the joints on different parts to line up; so this isn't about just simply using the 2 wider settings.

I believe that there are two possible problems; either I have a bad supply of tenons in every size or the width of the cut is not properly set up from the factory.

Does anyone know if there is a way to adjust the default setting how wide each mortise is cut?

Thank you,

DNRDHS77

you say ,you use a hammer to install them.how hard are you tapping them? and do they,eventually go in with tapping them?the reason I'm asking is that, i have to tap my tenons with my hammer.they won't go in with just pressing them with my fingers.

 

[Mirko]

I don't have enough experience with the domino to really say yet if they are too tight, but I can say that they fit almost exactly like dowels, it is very rare that a dowel can be pulled out by hand. I've probably installed a million dowel in my career, all in the Millwork industry, so when I used a hammer to install the first few Domino's, I really wasn't surprised all that much. If millwork dowels were loose they would be useless, not to mention fall out everywhere.

The Domino's seem the tightest at the rounded portions, and just like dowels, cut themselves into the wood, while at the same time allowing the glue to escape.
I really do not see a problem with this because the flat area seems to have more clearance. When the wider mortice is used they easily go in and out by hand.

I would like to see Festool make water activated Domino's just like the Millwork dowels, this would be perfect because the domino and mortice only need to be shot with water (I use a spray bottle) and there is no mess, any excess water can be blown away with compressed air.

Festool, hurry up with the pre-glued Dominos!

Mirko

 

[Eli]

I was waiting to see how they held up over time before I said anything, but with melamine construction, I am wetting the holes with a spray bottle (knock out excess) and then just one squirt of polyurethane glue in the hole, swish with the other end of an old artist's brush (a four mil dowel basically), fit a dry domino. Do the same other side of case. The foam-out is very slight, I cut it off with a chisel when plastic, seems like very rigid construction. They're shelves in the kid's room, so they should get some scientific style punishment eventually. The water seems to be helping the glue bond and kick it off quick. Like I said, early in the testing process, but I've been happy with the almost total lack of mess.

 

[Lou Miller]

Hey Lou

Do you round the corners on the home made Domino's?

I have played briefly with Mirko's Domino (actually, it was Mirko doing the work) and was surprised at how tight the little buggers were. We had to use pliers to remove them and their were a suction sound when they came out.

Making your own Domino's requires time but gives you the option to use contrasting wood if you wanted to do some through tenon work.

Dan Clermont

Most of the time I round them over. I have a bunch of Whiteside round over bits, they aren't metric, but they are very close and they work great. I use a 3/32" round over for 5mm dominoes, 1/8" for 6 mm, 5/32" for 8 mm, and 3/16" for the 10mm. If you use the router table, and play around with the height on each bit, you can get them darn near perfect. I have zero clearance blocks made for each of them to eliminate the guess work in setting them up now.

I bought those bits a while ago, so I don't know what I paid for them. However, you could get those 4 bits from Holbren for under $70 delivered today (well, in the US anyway). I'd have to think metric ones would be a LOT more money.

I make my tenons from scrap that is laying around the shop, so there isn't any cost involved there. I'm getting faster and faster at making them each time I do it too. I made a little over a 1200 of them last week in about 45 minutes.

 

[woodpicker]

Try to see if plunge the Domino machine in slowly will help or not. Since the cutter is going left and right to cut the mortise. If you plunge the machine in too fast, the front part of the mortise will be narrower than the rear. Also, don't stop the machine before you finish the plunge action.

Just a thought.

 

[dnrdhs77]

Well, there certainly has been some interesting inputs from this group - thanks to all that have replied.

There seems to be some general agreement that the dominos don't fit "as expected", lots of suggested work around's (round over bits, sanding) and even those that make their own.

From reading your input and my experiments with the machine I know that I'm not using it incorrectly.  Since this is my first purchase of a Festool product I'm going to turn this one over to Festool and see what they have to say about.  Perhaps the dominos were designed to be 0.03 to 0.40 thousands-inch wider than the slot.  Seems odd to me, but you never know...

I will post a reply of my experience with Festool customer service on this issue.  As this is my first Festool product purchase I'm hoping that they will live up to their reputation.

Thanks again,
DNRDHS77

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Hey Lou

Do you round the corners on the home made Domino's?

I have played briefly with Mirko's Domino (actually, it was Mirko doing the work) and was surprised at how tight the little buggers were. We had to use pliers to remove them and their were a suction sound when they came out.

Making your own Domino's requires time but gives you the option to use contrasting wood if you wanted to do some through tenon work.

Dan Clermont

Most of the time I round them over. I have a bunch of Whiteside round over bits, they aren't metric, but they are very close and they work great. I use a 3/32" round over for 5mm dominoes, 1/8" for 6 mm, 5/32" for 8 mm, and 3/16" for the 10mm. If you use the router table, and play around with the height on each bit, you can get them darn near perfect. I have zero clearance blocks made for each of them to eliminate the guess work in setting them up now.

I bought those bits a while ago, so I don't know what I paid for them. However, you could get those 4 bits from Holbren for under $70 delivered today (well, in the US anyway). I'd have to think metric ones would be a LOT more money.

I make my tenons from scrap that is laying around the shop, so there isn't any cost involved there. I'm getting faster and faster at making them each time I do it too. I made a little over a 1200 of them last week in about 45 minutes.

Lou,

How are you setting up to X-cut them so quickly to length?  I have not made any yet, but I don't see why the edges need to be accurately sized.  If you use the wider settings on the Domino machine with Festool dominos, you have free space at each edge of the domino.  So what is the harm in simply leaving the edges square if you want to?  You could also simply chamfer them instead of using a quarter round or bullnose bit to make near perfectly rounded edges.

Dave R.