Domino tip 'o' da day and the day afta

[Per Swenson]

Learn by doing.

Nah that ain't it.

I'll learn so you don't have to.

Do not put glue in the holes as you would a biscuit.

Brush a tad on the domino itself, and when I say tad,

I mean teeny tad. Especially if your brave and cut your mortises

to the exact size of the domino.

This might have been mentioned already, but I figure it may save some

one a little anguish in the coming days.

So what happens Per?

Well, that lil puppy will hydro lock right up on ya.

The clamps of Godzilla won't save you.

Some tight fittin joints.

Per

 

[Steven in Iowa]

Well, that lil puppy will hydro lock right up on ya.

The clamps of Godzilla won't save you.

Per,
   You need a publicly broadcast woodworking show, so everyone can enjoy your humor and your experience.  ;D

 

[woodshopdemos]

Hey Per,
  Were you watching me and Elena. We were putting together two sides, a back and a base in a cabinet and had "the perfect dry fit." and then we broke it apart for glue up... and we were not adding all that much glue, but when we were reassembling, we had about 27 Domino's and about 21 hydro-locks (we called them a little different.) What was amazing is that the full sized kitchen base cabinet went together so smoothly and will be a very solid cabinet with absolutely NO metal fasteners (screws, staples or brads) and that baby is one solid cabinet.

 

[Per Swenson]

John,

Yeah I was watching.....

But that stuff wouldn't happen to me.

Insert your definition of hubris here.

Steve, thanks for the compliment.

Lets pick out a name..

I know, I got it, How about.....

Wonder Wood Working?

Cause if its a good job.........it's a Wonder.

Per

 

[Per Swenson]

Creative shelf edge.

Wazza matter afraid your gonna blow through thin shelf edge?

Tough guy now hunh?

So this is what I did. The plunge depth is measurable and super accurate.

But I wanted only a 1/2 inch shelf edge. Which is 12 mm or some such

metric equivalent. The minimum depth is 12 mm.

So I super glued, (on the ends) a 1/4 inch sacrificial strip to it and just made

the receiving end on the shelf deeper. Cut it free,

Lined up perfect.

Per

 

[Michael Kellough]

Creative shelf edge.

Wazza matter afraid your gonna blow through thin shelf edge?

Tough guy now hunh?

So this is what I did. The plunge depth is measurable and super accurate.

But I wanted only a 1/2 inch shelf edge. Which is 12 mm or some such

metric equivalent. The minimum depth is 12 mm.

So I super glued, (on the ends) a 1/4 inch sacrificial strip to it and just made

the receiving end on the shelf deeper. Cut it free,

Lined up perfect.

Per

I've read this five times now and only on the fourth time did I notice that this is a Domino tip. At least I'm in the ballpark now but I still don't get it. " hunh?" sums me up.

 

[Per Swenson]

Michael,

You are drilling a hole with the Domino.

The shortest hole you can drill is 12 mm.

12mm = 1/2 inch and a little.

If you had say, veneered MDF and wanted to put a 1/2 facing strip

on it....and thought you were going to cut your mortise, its gonna blow through.

Now, I'm sure people are gonna say well I just glue em on any way or use

my pinner.

Not me and not anymore.

The domino gives a edge to surface alignment the requires no sanding,planing

or futzing. The results are what I am gonna call high end factory.

And thats what this guy is aiming for.

Per

 

[Per Swenson]

OK I reread it,

A little more clarification.

1/2" x 3/4" x 48"  shelf edge, attached to a 3/4" x 12" x 48" shelf.

Cut the shelf edge long to 50"

cut a 1/4 x 3/4 x 50" sacrificial piece. Glue the two together on the ends.

Cut your holes. Cut the glued ends off, to 48"

Result.  1/4 mortise.

Howz that? Better?

P.

 

[Michael Kellough]

OK I reread it,

A little more clarification.

1/2" x 3/4" x 48"  shelf edge, attached to a 3/4" x 12" x 48" shelf.

Cut the shelf edge long to 50"

cut a 1/4 x 3/4 x 50" sacrificial piece. Glue the two together on the ends.

Cut your holes. Cut the glued ends off, to 48"

Result.  1/4 mortise.

Howz that? Better?

P.

Got it! Got he mortise part on the second go round and now I get the cutting off the ends trick. Both of them very cool ideas. Thanks for taking the extra effort to explain.

 

[woodshopdemos]

Per,
  I get it and I like. Makes real sense and very doable.
There was a comment on the Australian Owners Group that you dont need to make jigss since the Domino has several ways to match the morts. That is ttrue, but I created two jugs for spacing on kitchen cabinets Elena and I were building. I bring this up, Per, to make the same point as you are making, I think...you create what ever it takes to make use of the Domino Joiner.

 

[Ned]

cut a 1/4 x 3/4 x 50" sacrificial piece. Glue the two together on the ends.

Cut your holes. Cut the glued ends off, to 48"

Result.  1/4 mortise.

So the sacrificial piece is a shim to limit the depth of cut on the good piece?  And you cut through this shim and then remove it?

This is a great idea.

Ned

 

[bill-e]

I like the idea of having various pre-measured lengths of PVC to slip on the post.  Nothing to figure out, just pick the one that gives you the desired depth...and you can cut them to imperial sizes   Rick's manual explains how to do this and he's already figured out most of the sizes for you.  All you need is a few inches of PVC and a saw to make the spacers.  Example, for a 9/32" plunge depth you need a 13/16" sleeve.

 

[Rick Christopherson]

I apologize for any potential confusion this may cause, but I have chosen to not participate on this forum.

 

[T. Michael]

Oooh,  that's good too.

Rick; do we hafta wait til April 1st to see the manual?  Don't you want more proof readers?

Mike

 

[Dave Ronyak]

Well, that lil puppy will hydro lock right up on ya.

The clamps of Godzilla won't save you.

Per,
   You need a publicly broadcast woodworking show, so everyone can enjoy your humor and your experience.   ;D

AMEN to that!!  I have been educated and entertained by Per many times.  What is the program time and channel?

 

[John Stevens]

Do not put glue in the holes as you would a biscuit.  Brush a tad on the domino itself, and when I say tad, I mean teeny tad. [snip]
So what happens Per?  Well, that lil puppy will hydro lock right up on ya.

We were putting together two sides, a back and a base in a cabinet and had "the perfect dry fit." and then we broke it apart for glue up... and we were not adding all that much glue, but when we were reassembling, we had about 27 Domino's and about 21 hydro-locks

That’s interesting, gentlemen.  Because I had asked in a previous thread what was the quickest way to apply glue to the Domino mortise, and here’s the response I got from Jerry Work:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=43.msg1148#msg1148

I find a simple solder brush works best.  These are the throw away black fiber brushes with the tubular steel handles that you can buy as a bundle most anywhere.  Dip the brush, insert into the Domino mortise and twist to line the walls with glue.  None of the Lamello type applicators work very well as they don't fully coat the mortise walls.  My technique is to coat the walls and lightly coat the mating surfaces.  Then coat half of a Domino, insert it, coat the other half and then assemble.  Providing a bit of time for the glue to soak in little before assembly (20 seconds or more) will make sure you have a good glue joint.  If you insert a dry Domino into a just coated mortise wall it is possible for the Domino to scrape the glue off the walls as it is inserted leaving too little glue in the joint.  The Domino cutters (at least mine) are 0.1mm smaller than the diameter marked (about .004") so the fit is quite tight to begin with.  By allowing the glue to soak into the walls for a few seconds insures a molecular level bond, not just a mechanical bond.

No mention of problems getting the tenons inserted.  Heck, I thought the tenons were fluted to prevent this problem.  I'm a little concerned about the risk of not getting a good glue bond unless both of the adjoining surfaces are coated with glue, due to the surface tension of the glue and the scraping of the tenon against the mortise.  Comments?

 

[bill-e]

I had one tenon hydro lock on me and that mortise had glue slopped in it and it was an exact fit mortise.  From then on I applied only enough glue to the mortise with an acid brush to wet the sides (brush equipped with David Marks trademark blue masking tape ) and also wiped a very, very thin coating on the sides of the tenon.  I got this mental thing that says gotta glue both surfaces so I always do.  Anyway, once I lightly applied the glue I had no problems with the fit.  I feel safe applying less glue as long as all surfaces are wet.

In the case of loose width mortises you also want to be careful not to apply too much glue or when you squeeze the pieces together you have lots of glue to clean up.

As far as the flutes or ribs on the ends of the tenon I think if anything they only allow air to escape.  They are too small to allow a thick glue to rapidly escape when your clamping and as your bit wears and the mortise gets slightly narrower, those flutes are going to be crushed or sheared off when you drive the tenon in the mortise......so don't count on them as a glue relief.

 

[molarman]

Rick; do we hafta wait til April 1st to see the manual?

Yeah Rick.  When will you release the manual and where will we be able to find it?

 

[John Stevens]

I got this mental thing that says gotta glue both surfaces so I always do.

Yeah, I got the same "mental thing" a few years ago when I tried a test where I glued only one edge of a two-board glue-up, clamped the boards together for a couple minutes, then disassembled them to see how much glue was transferred to the other board.

Thanks for your comments, Bill--sounds like you and Jerry Work do pretty much the same thing.

 

[Jerry Work]

Hi all,

I have not had the problem with hydro lock since I developed the following technique.  The technique I describe in the upcoming manual is to coat the sides of one mortise with a solder brush, then coat one half of the tenon and insert it fully into that mortise.  While the glue is still quite wet you can feel the tenon reach the glue in the bottom of the mortise and with a bit more pressure can feel glue pumping up the tenon flutes until the tenon bottoms out.  A quick wipe with the glue brush will take the excess glue that came out the flutes and apply it to the remaining part of the tenon.  Since the holes bored by the Domino are a bit longer than half the length of the matching tenon, by fully bottoming out the tenon in one side you create a larger well for excess glue on the other side of the joint.  So, unless you really over fill the mortise on the second side with glue there will be plenty of room for glue pushed off the sides of the mortise by the tenon and no hydro lock will occur.

When I first received the Domino I tried several ways to create hydro lock as I was concerned that it could be an issue when multiple tight fitting dominos are placed along the same joint.  The only way I could create the issue was to place both mortises face up and slop a lot of glue into them, then insert a tenon just far enough for it to stay in place and slop on a bunch more glue before trying to put the joint together.  With both tenons facing up it is possible to over fill the holes and create the hydro lock issue.  Use the solder brush and push the tenon fully into place in one mortise before adding glue to the other and I have not been able to create the problem.  Hope this helps.

Jerry

Do not put glue in the holes as you would a biscuit.  Brush a tad on the domino itself, and when I say tad, I mean teeny tad. [snip]
So what happens Per?  Well, that lil puppy will hydro lock right up on ya.

We were putting together two sides, a back and a base in a cabinet and had "the perfect dry fit." and then we broke it apart for glue up... and we were not adding all that much glue, but when we were reassembling, we had about 27 Domino's and about 21 hydro-locks

That’s interesting, gentlemen.  Because I had asked in a previous thread what was the quickest way to apply glue to the Domino mortise, and here’s the response I got from Jerry Work:
http://festoolownersgroup.com/index.php?topic=43.msg1148#msg1148

I find a simple solder brush works best.  These are the throw away black fiber brushes with the tubular steel handles that you can buy as a bundle most anywhere.  Dip the brush, insert into the Domino mortise and twist to line the walls with glue.  None of the Lamello type applicators work very well as they don't fully coat the mortise walls.  My technique is to coat the walls and lightly coat the mating surfaces.  Then coat half of a Domino, insert it, coat the other half and then assemble.  Providing a bit of time for the glue to soak in little before assembly (20 seconds or more) will make sure you have a good glue joint.  If you insert a dry Domino into a just coated mortise wall it is possible for the Domino to scrape the glue off the walls as it is inserted leaving too little glue in the joint.  The Domino cutters (at least mine) are 0.1mm smaller than the diameter marked (about .004") so the fit is quite tight to begin with.  By allowing the glue to soak into the walls for a few seconds insures a molecular level bond, not just a mechanical bond.

No mention of problems getting the tenons inserted.  Heck, I thought the tenons were fluted to prevent this problem.  I'm a little concerned about the risk of not getting a good glue bond unless both of the adjoining surfaces are coated with glue, due to the surface tension of the glue and the scraping of the tenon against the mortise.  Comments?