ETS EC Upgrade Bad Decision

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kiblerjd

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Hello everyone.  Haven't posted many questions like this on here but figured I would give it a try.  I recently came across a few extra bucks to blow on some new festools.  I had been eyeballing the new ETS EC sanders for a long time.  I had the old style ETS 125 and ETS 150/3 but figured the upgrade was a no brainer to the ETS EC 125/3 because i could use the 150 pads as well.  Sold both my old sanders and bought the new one.

Long story short, I really am not enjoying the new ETS EC.  I love the power but when i have it hooked to my vacuum i find it almost impossible to properly balance it.  Even on a large flat surface, and with the 6" pad, i find that the way the dust collection hose attaches it always wants to drag the back of the sander down.  If i press hard enough on the top of the sander to keep it flat on the surface it results in poor quality finish (swirl marks).  I'm just constantly messing with that hose trying to get it balanced well.  If it matters i have the CT36 with the boom arm.  I have tried it without the hose on the boom arm and that wasn't all that great either.

I'm curious if anyone else has the same feelings or has suggestions.  I don't need a lesson in basic sanding technique i have been doing this a long time and had amazing results with the old sanders.  I'm just worried i made a bad decision on this upgrade.
 
Like you, I went from the ETS150 to the new ETS EC. I had the same initial feelings about the sander. The old style ETS just sits nice and flat on the work without any effort the EC doesn't.

However after a few uses I got used to it. It really doesn't take a lot of pressure and effort to keep the thing flat on the surface. You'll get used to it. It is bit of a learning curve though since the way you grip the sanders is so different.

i eventually gave my ETS150 to my son.

Ron

 
I love the ets ec 125. I sometimes hold the hose and lightly grip the front of the sander. I haven't had any balance issues I think give it some more time.
 
kiblerjd said:
Do you guys use the boom arm or are you letting the hose hang down from the floor?
Click to expand...

I don't have a boom arm but it is suspended from the ceiling. I take enough slack off so the hose isn't affecting the sander. I might wrap it around my arm sometimes.

I know what you're talking about compared to the non EC sanders though. Those required zero thought and would stay flat and upright on their own.
 
I guess the problem is the sanders you moved from.

The ETS 125 is a small nimble machine. Very, very easy to control.

IMO you should not have sold it. It is a good complement for edge work (with the edge guide or without) and any other work where size/weight matter the most. The EC series are really not meant as a replacement/upgrade from it.

The old ETS150, on the other hand, has the heft to be stable by itself. The hose will not be able to topple it, especially not with a boom arm so one would learn to allow it to "do its work", only gently guiding it around.

Now, the ETS EC needs to be guided as it is too light. But at same is bigger so using the same grip as on the ETS 123 will not work either. Experiment a bit more and try not to use/hold like you did the other sanders. It is a different machine and needs a different technique to use. You need to let off your muscle memory and "learn" to sand with it again - which will take some time.

Try to experiment for some time and if you still do not find a way of harmony with it, then it is possibly not compatible with you and you should look to avoid this sander type (i.e. the air sanders plus this one).

What I do with light/short sanders (do not have the EC though) is to grab the sander low, around its base kinda, and make it "the extension of my hand" more so than my hand "guiding" the sander like I do with the heavies.
 
this discussion is very helpful and making me feel a lot better about the decision.  I'll keep experimenting with the thing and see if I can re-learn how to properly hold/guide this thing.  You are right i think the fact that it is so light means that i have to do a lot more of the work to properly guide it around.  I used to have no issues using either of the ets sanders even on narrow pieces.  The EC is really kicking my but on those haha.  I'll just practice and see what happens.

Another thing i was going to start looking into was possibly upgrading the hose on my CT36.  I have what i believe is the standard green anti static model that came with the vacuum (about 8 years old at this point maybe).  Not sure if the hose tech has changed maybe there are lighter more flexible versions out there now.  This is another example where with the old sanders i just never had to think about it.
 
I have the ETS EC125/3 with a 150 pad.  I doubt I will ever go back to the 125 pad on the EC but I also have the 125req so 5 inch paper is still stocked anyways.  I love the EC but never used the old model. I too use two hand method "sometimes" one on sander and one on hose.  My tips for best/easy sanding

1.  Hose from above either boom arm or suspended.
2. 27mm hose
3. No hose cover.  This is something I just found out.  I have the PET mesh cover on my hose but since its hanging it doesnt catch on the edges anyways so the cover just makes the hose stiffer and harder to handle.
4. finally, make sure you have some good non slip sanding pad.  I use bench cookies and install a plastic dog on each one.  This keeps the cookie locked in place and set the part on top.  This works well to keep the part from walking around and keeps both hands free if needed.  Or vacuum clamp but the cookies work well for large flat panels. 
 
I didnt realize festool had a smaller hose than 27mm, interesting.  Thats nice on one hand but I dont ever use full length hose in the shop.  I have found 8' is kind of the sweet spot for my shop hose length. when plugged into a ceiling port they just hang straight down without ending up in a tangled mess on the ground.  the taper kind of messes up cutting it plus 300 for a hose I wouldnt be cutting it anyways. I guess I should have said max 27mm. 

Ill check out the festool hoses closer.  I wouldnt mind a slightly smaller hose for use with sanders.  I have been trying to dial in my small tool hose recently.  I like the cleantec end for use with my ec, req, and DTS but it does not fit well on the MAfell DDF40 and the new LS130 uses the older ribbed port.  The Centec hose works better with the ribbed port and the DDF40 but does get chewed up a bit from the cleantec ports on the sanders.  So its a bit of a PITA 
 
Cheese said:
with the smaller 22mm/27 mm tapered hose.
Click to expand...

Sorry stupid question. Where is the "taper" in the hose.  My god i had no idea looking at hoses could be some complicated.  I assume it is smaller toward the tool end and larger at the vacuum.  Also I noticed they don't make a hose this size unless you get the sleeve.  So with the sleeve are your right back to where you started with the 27mm hose?
 
Here's my experience with the hoses...I started with the old green AS 27 mm hose and then attached a cord to it with the poly netting. That became extremely stiff and unwieldy. I then moved to the 201761 tapered hose 22mm/27mm. That's a pretty nice solution for sanding. I also use it for the routers and track saws. I have one fitted to a CT 22 and another one fitted to an older MIDI, I'm obviously happy with the results.

For the Kapex & HL 850 I use a newer MIDI with the new more flexible 36mm AS hose.

Those tapered hoses really work well...I'm surprised however what they now cost. I paid $225 each for mine about 7 years ago. Each one came in a Systainer so I figured they really weren't that expensive at the time.

There was also a special on them about 2-3 years ago. Some vendors selling them for $150 including the Systainer.

The sleeve has a full length zipper so removal couldn't be easier.
 
tsmi243 said:
kiblerjd said:
So with the sleeve are your right back to where you started with the 27mm hose?
Click to expand...

Anybody know if the sleeve comes off without a fight?
Click to expand...

Or more,  looks like that sleeve adds at least 5mm plus the extra weight which is just as bad or worse then the extra 5mm and the extra stiffness.  Im pretty convinced the best hose for sanding is ribbed hose 27 or smaller if you can find one.  no sleeving of any kind and only as long as needed.  Provided you can hang/support from above.  flexible, light and min. bulky is the recipe.  I have a 3m sander that uses a odd size hose not sure if its the same as festool 27mm my centec hose is 1.25 so its just slightly bigger and wont fit in the 3m sander.  Its not a big deal; since I use it for wet sanding anyways.  The kicker is the ends add more bulk too and not sure why they are so big looks like a 3d printed one could be made much more compact. If your using your hose from the ground you need some type of sleeve. 
 
Interesting.  Maybe just a function of muscle memory?  I understand what you are saying about the weight being towards the back of the sander when the hose is attached (and so boom arm can be a solution, or something even more DIY, like how I do via a zip tie around the hose hanging from a screw hook secured into the beam above my workbench) -- but for me the balance and movement have become quite natural at this point, much more so than with the ETS model that I used for a while prior to getting the EC. 

It's sort of like how I can't stand the position of the forward/reverse button on the Milwaukee M12 Installation driver on top of the machine, as opposed to the back and forth switch right above the trigger that most other drills use.  I know some people who find the M12 configuration much more intuitive, but I feel like I am performing an unnatural motion every time I have to engage it, so naturalized has the muscle memory of the trigger switch for forward/reverse become for me.

kiblerjd said:
Hello everyone.  Haven't posted many questions like this on here but figured I would give it a try.  I recently came across a few extra bucks to blow on some new festools.  I had been eyeballing the new ETS EC sanders for a long time.  I had the old style ETS 125 and ETS 150/3 but figured the upgrade was a no brainer to the ETS EC 125/3 because i could use the 150 pads as well.  Sold both my old sanders and bought the new one.

Long story short, I really am not enjoying the new ETS EC.  I love the power but when i have it hooked to my vacuum i find it almost impossible to properly balance it.  Even on a large flat surface, and with the 6" pad, i find that the way the dust collection hose attaches it always wants to drag the back of the sander down.  If i press hard enough on the top of the sander to keep it flat on the surface it results in poor quality finish (swirl marks).  I'm just constantly messing with that hose trying to get it balanced well.  If it matters i have the CT36 with the boom arm.  I have tried it without the hose on the boom arm and that wasn't all that great either.

I'm curious if anyone else has the same feelings or has suggestions.  I don't need a lesson in basic sanding technique i have been doing this a long time and had amazing results with the old sanders.  I'm just worried i made a bad decision on this upgrade.
Click to expand...
 
Interesting. I love mine. I wrap the hose over my shoulder or round my arm and find it’s really well balanced and smooth.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
So i went to the store and checked out the sleeved 22mm hose and it seemed almost as stiff as the one i had.  What is interesting is that I pulled out my midi a few days ago to use my track saw and to my surprise the hose that came with that thing was noticeably more flexible than the one that came with my CT36 back in the day.  For giggles i swapped out the hoses and put the midi hose on my boom arm.  I was shocked at the difference when using the sanders.  I would love for them to come out with a 22mm version of that hose i think it would be an amazing choice.
 
arnt the ct36 and midi hoses the same? on a side note, I couldnt find a 22 to 27 hose other than the sleeved one for 300 which wont work for me since I will want to cut it down anyways.  I also couldnt find a replacement hose end for a 22mm hose. 
 
Festool has pared down their hoses a lot lately. Pretty much only anti-static hoses with the braiding in D27/32 and D36 varieties, the "classic" AS D50 hose, non-AS D50 hose and the special hoses with sleeve or for hand sanding seem to be retained.

All the "classic" hoses except the D50 one are out in Europe. I see even the D36 non-AS hoses disappearing fast.

Kinda understand it, there were just too many options and it was confusing people a lot.

Shame the "classic" D22 hoses are out as standalone - one can get it only in the sleeve+cable set which is more expensive..

I will not miss the other options that went away. There are good cheaper options from competition on the non-AS side.

Check 500688 (https://www.festool.de/zubehoer/500668---d-2722-dm-asct)
 
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