Ever seen a shop drawing this bad?

[luvmytoolz]

I just want to know if anyone has sent the bloke a link to this thread!

It clearly seems normal to him so he'd probably consider everyone here nuts! ;-)

 

[ChuckM]

Snip. I'm baffled, I understand what it means, but it just looks so wrong.

Is this what he meant to convey?

[attachimg=1]

He used notations that aren't commonly or widely employed. His drawing can result in serious misunderstanding.

 

[squall_line]

This thread is starting to feel like a Rorschach test.  [wink]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

It was alluded to before, but Cheese was the first one to say it outright. The arrows are 180 degrees out. They point the wrong way.
When I asked about it, the answer given was painful to hear.
"The arrow goes in the direction you are pulling the tape"....yes really.
So, you hook the tape on the right, pull to the left, write the dimension, draw the arrow?
I was dumbfounded. I would never do this. I come from the world of Machinists and their drawings, which always included a tolerance too.
Our shop drawings never do that, but they generally follow the same format. The dimension is almost always between the datum and the measured feature. If it won't fit in the space, it is usually to the right, maybe with an arrow pointing to the gap. (depends on the layout)

ALL of those dimensions are referenced from the right edge and the bottom.

Since they were annoyingly all over the place, I whipped out the Shaper Origin and made a template of the one hole size. I marked all of the locations at the centerline with a line in the X and Y directions and cut them out with a flush-trim bit.

Two Origin jobs in the same day, never happened before.
The other was a hole pattern for a faucet set. It required 1 3/8" holes, spaced 4" apart. I have a 1 1/4" Forstner bit and a 1 1/2" hole saw......nothing between. There are ways around it. In the past, I would probably have drilled it smaller and opened it up with a rabbeting bit, offset to get the right size.....however, when you have it, you use it. It only takes a few seconds.

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Snip. I'm baffled, I understand what it means, but it just looks so wrong.

Is this what he meant to convey?

[attachimg=1]

He used notations that aren't commonly or widely employed. His drawing can result in serious misunderstanding.

You have the locations right, but the narrow dimension is vertical. These are electrical outlets. The thing I was cutting is a soft material that is used as a bulletin board, in somewhat of a backsplash situation. I filler between the countertop and the upper cabinets.

 

[Michael Kellough]

So all his arrows are correct, within his scheme.

In the bottom drawing it just works out that the cutouts are dead center vertically.
Hard to tell by looking at the drawing.

 

[Cheese]

So all his arrows are correct, within his scheme.

In the bottom drawing it just works out that the cutouts are dead center vertically.
Hard to tell by looking at the drawing.

Unfortunately no...this is very similar to European projection that confuses both the draftsman and the checker.  [big grin]

 

[Cheese]

When I asked about it, the answer given was painful to hear.
"The arrow goes in the direction you are pulling the tape"....yes really.

Now that's absolutely hilarious...you just have to step back a bit, shake your head and hope the person making that statement isn't somehow responsible for reinvesting your 401K.  [big grin]

It's all very cool shorthand, and I get it, and like it, but it's very confusing for the uninformed and from a legal perspective it would have to be translated/rewritten into a document that would withstand the court proceedings if there was a lawsuit for whatever reason.

 

[Michael Kellough]

So all his arrows are correct, within his scheme.

In the bottom drawing it just works out that the cutouts are dead center vertically.
Hard to tell by looking at the drawing.

Unfortunately no...this is very similar to European projection that confuses both the draftsman and the checker.  [big grin]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]  which arrows are incorrect? CRG says the origin is the lower right corner and the arrow points in the direction the tape measure is pulled (so the draftsman is directing you to duplicate how the measurements were obtained). It sure looks weird but seems quite rational after all.

 

[woodferret]

It sure looks weird but seems quite rational after all.

It gets even better when measuring rooms.  You can denote walls/jutouts A, B, C, D, E, F and then just put the corresponding letter next to a feature's datum marker to very clearly specify which wall you were measuring from.  There's no mess from crossing measurement bars.

 

[Cheese]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member]  which arrows are incorrect? CRG says the origin is the lower right corner and the arrow points in the direction the tape measure is pulled (so the draftsman is directing you to duplicate how the measurements were obtained). It sure looks weird but seems quite rational after all.

[member=297]Michael Kellough[/member]  The origin is in the upper RH corner. And the arrow direction points to the datum line the dimension is referring to not the direction of the tape pull.
Tape pull direction has nothing to do with establishing datum lines as a left handed person and a right handed may indeed pull the tape in different directions when using their dominant hand.  [smile]

[attachimg=1]

 

[Michael Kellough]

Did you see CRG’s reply #23?

“"The arrow goes in the direction you are pulling the tape"....yes really.
So, you hook the tape on the right, pull to the left, write the dimension, draw the arrow?
…
ALL of those dimensions are referenced from the right edge and the bottom.”

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Did you see CRG’s reply #23?

“"The arrow goes in the direction you are pulling the tape"....yes really.
So, you hook the tape on the right, pull to the left, write the dimension, draw the arrow?
…
ALL of those dimensions are referenced from the right edge and the bottom.”

Yes. The origin is the bottom right corner.

I knew what it meant, I just don't like how it was drawn. I think it mostly just looks wrong because I have never seen it done that way.  It's like when someone uses bad grammar, you get it, but it sounds bad. (or is that just me, sorry)  [huh]

 

[Cheese]

Did you see CRG’s reply #23?

“"The arrow goes in the direction you are pulling the tape"....yes really.
So, you hook the tape on the right, pull to the left, write the dimension, draw the arrow?
…
ALL of those dimensions are referenced from the right edge and the bottom.”

Yes. The origin is the bottom right corner.

I knew what it meant, I just don't like how it was drawn. I think it mostly just looks wrong because I have never seen it done that way.  It's like when someone uses bad grammar, you get it, but it sounds bad. (or is that just me, sorry)  [huh]

Well that was educational... [eek] ...I think?  So the tape pull direction is actually more important than the dimension itself, without the tape pull direction the dimension is just a number.  [doh]

 

[Crazyraceguy]

Yeah [member=44099]Cheese[/member] that is exactly right forehead slapper. Out of a customer or maybe even contractor, ok I can deal with it, but from a guy who I have worked with for all these years? He looks at the same drawings that I do every day, I don't get it.

I did appreciate the center marking and a consistent opening size though. It could have been worse if ALL of those dimensions were there too  [eek]

 

[woodferret]

I had a laugh when this came up (re: japanese timber framing)

[attachimg=1]

 

[ChuckM]

If I can read Japanese, I might not have much difficulty understanding that framing drawing, which seems to look just full of details.