Felder 540s or SCM Nova 400

[dales]

I am long to buy a sliding saw, have narrowed it down to the felder 540s or the scm nova 400. I have put hands on the felder but not the scm. However the scm is a little less expensive than the felder. Which should I get? And why? This is just for hobby use, mostly hard woods.

 

[Kev]

I've been researching sliders forever and will likely get a KF700 Pro when I have physical space (Although I have a decent router table setup, I'd add the spindle moulder option for the ability to easily shape the big stuff, but don't want the overhead of a stand alone spindle moulder).

I believe the SCM would be a very good machine and here in Oz the price/feature balance would fall heavily in favour of SCM. Felder offers solid resale locally, an SCM doesn't fair as well.

The Nova looks to be a serious lump of saw! I can't imagine that you'd be disappointed with it.

Generally I believe Felder are superior when it comes to combo machines over most of the other players .. Saw/Spindle, Planer/Thicknesser and 4 & 5 in one combos. Outside of those, I think Felder shines when you get into their high end machines. There's a lot of good Euro sliders on the market ... a lot of it comes down to service and support

 

[junk731]

I've owned a K500S, it was a reasonable saw but not a great saw. The newer K540 has the trunnion setup of the K700 series but the chassis of Hammer/K500 (light counterbalanced with a concrete slab.). I sold the K500 for great money after 2 years and upgraded to the K700S. For the money the K700S is the biggest bang for the buck. The SCM again is like the K500 its just OK. Both will cut wood.

John

 

[Kev]

I've owned a K500S, it was a reasonable saw but not a great saw. The newer K540 has the trunnion setup of the K700 series but the chassis of Hammer/K500 (light counterbalanced with a concrete slab.). I sold the K500 for great money after 2 years and upgraded to the K700S. For the money the K700S is the biggest bang for the buck. The SCM again is like the K500 its just OK. Both will cut wood.

John

[member=4907]kcufstoidi[/member] interesting you should say this .. from appearance I though the Felder K5... looked more Hammer than Felder!

What did you think were the K7.. must have options? The quote I got for a KF700 ran for two pages and I don't know a single soul locally that can advise. I also mentioned that I was thinking saw/spindle for space reasons - but mounting the motor feed arm, etc on the saw could be a bit naff - and spindle moulders (unlike table saws) don't mind backing onto a wall.

 

[junk731]

IMHO to utilize the saw fully:

126" slider
seperate scoring not belt driven off main blade
2 parallel guides
overhead saw guard
Fritz and Franz jig
1 air clamp
remote start buttons on slider

The new style of overhead guard that Felder has changed to was a step backwards but unfortunately they don't make the unit that was available in 2010 anymore. Looks pretty and works just a pain in the ass to move out of the way. If you want to cut oversize material then 2 parallel guides really help, if not, 1 will suffice. Air clamp with remote control if you want to do accurate panel work, you can get by with other methods but why struggle plus the air clamp is just plain handy. You typically have to make the F&F jig but now you can also buy one from Martin for about $1000.00 AU. In my world all the other electronic stuff is just fluff that can go wrong.
Join the Felder Owners Group, the original FOG. Lots of questions there from those that don't know with help from those that do.

John

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Rather have a vintage Martin T75. Beautiful, well made, and thought out saws.

 

[junk731]

Beautiful saw but for most sort of like trying to find hens teeth and then once found they have to have the ability to bring back to working condition. Keep up the great resto work Darcy.

John

 

[WarnerConstCo.]

Beautiful saw but for most sort of like trying to find hens teeth and then once found they have to have the ability to bring back to working condition. Keep up the great resto work Darcy.

John

I own two right now. That one is from 71, the other from 78. Both one shop owned saws.

Best part about them is you can push the slider rail forward and use it just the same as any conventional saw for ripping lumber.

 

[online421]

I am looking at upgrading my current combination machine to separates, am looking at the following from Felder and SCM:
Felder:
AD951, thicknesser/planer combo
K700 pro panel saw
F900Z spindle moulder

SCM:
FS7, L'invincibile thicknesser/planer combo
SI300S panel saw
T55W Elite S spindle moulder

the 900 series "looks" very impressive, but I have been told SCM is more durable. I only need a short slider as I dont do panels or sheets. I cant decide who to go for. I have read some horror stories of Felder durability. I am not able to verify them.

The Felder machines I listed above is more balanced compare to the SCM machines I listed.

 

[junk731]

I've read good and bad about both, all I can pass on is my experience. The 2010 K700S Pro with a 126" slider has been trouble free in 6 years of use. I'm the second owner of the 2011 AD951 that I use, only needed minor table adjustments but again no issues. I don't have a F900 shaper but a 2011 F700 and again trouble free. The main thing that I like about the machines I own is the stability of setups and the interchangeability of the accessories such as extension tables, clamps etc. A lot of the problems I've read about for commercial level equipment are mainly from the hobby crowd and their expectations from commercial equipment. They typically don't want to pay to have the machine setup properly by the dealer and then get frustrated at their inability to adjust and repair.

John

 

[online421]

I've read good and bad about both, all I can pass on is my experience. The 2010 K700S Pro with a 126" slider has been trouble free in 6 years of use. I'm the second owner of the 2011 AD951 that I use, only needed minor table adjustments but again no issues. I don't have a F900 shaper but a 2011 F700 and again trouble free. The main thing that I like about the machines I own is the stability of setups and the interchangeability of the accessories such as extension tables, clamps etc. A lot of the problems I've read about for commercial level equipment are mainly from the hobby crowd and their expectations from commercial equipment. They typically don't want to pay to have the machine setup properly by the dealer and then get frustrated at their inability to adjust and repair.

John

Thanks for that John.

I really like the Felder as well, it has good design feature and the agent is only 2.7km from where I am. yes, 2.7km! not sure if this is a good thing.... lol

 

[junk731]

Could be very costly, LOL. Where are you located, Canada, Europe, Aus? My dealer is about 45 minutes away in Mississauga, Ontario. After 8 years it doesn't cost to much to visit only because I've bought almost everything I need.

John

 

[online421]

Could be very costly, LOL. Where are you located, Canada, Europe, Aus? My dealer is about 45 minutes away in Mississauga, Ontario. After 8 years it doesn't cost to much to visit only because I've bought almost everything I need.

John

I am in Auckland, New Zealand.

The differences between F700Z and the F900Z is about $6000USD over here, and the weight difference is 200kg going by the spec (440lb) its probably worth it? this will be my first real spindle moulder, my current spindle moulder is on my Robland combination machine (full size combi with 16" Tersa blade). I bought the Robland new 3 years ago, it has treated me well but my need has outgrown what the Robland can provide.

I liked the Tersa because its so fast to change the blade, but the noise is quite high and I am in the suburb, I have tried A941 with Felder spiral cutter block at the dealers shop floor and its very very quiet, I must say I am very impressed with the level of the noise.

In your experience with Felder, Do you think I should bite the bullet and get myself a K940s over K700s?

I have a full time job and the workshop is being used as a hobby business.

 

[Kev]

I've read good and bad about both, all I can pass on is my experience. The 2010 K700S Pro with a 126" slider has been trouble free in 6 years of use. I'm the second owner of the 2011 AD951 that I use, only needed minor table adjustments but again no issues. I don't have a F900 shaper but a 2011 F700 and again trouble free. The main thing that I like about the machines I own is the stability of setups and the interchangeability of the accessories such as extension tables, clamps etc. A lot of the problems I've read about for commercial level equipment are mainly from the hobby crowd and their expectations from commercial equipment. They typically don't want to pay to have the machine setup properly by the dealer and then get frustrated at their inability to adjust and repair.

John

[member=4907]kcufstoidi[/member] .. Never a truer word said. A full Felder workshop costs similar to a reasonably expensive motor vehicle. Regardless of whether you use the vehicle commercially or private/pleasure .. you'd get it serviced professionally. These high end tools are no different and deserve professional commissioning and maintenance.

The quotes I've received from Felder all included delivery/installation.

[member=60639]online421[/member] .. I can't imagine when I'd need a 940 over a 700. What sort of things are you making?

 

[junk731]

Deep enough pockets can justify any purchase but then I'm a bit of a minimalist of sorts. I like a good machine thats versatile enough for my needs. I do this everyday from custom cabs to furniture and haven't found a need for anything more then the F700Z. The price for extra spindles is great compared to the F900 and Format stuff. Unless you want to run the real big heavy cutters and take huge cuts all day IMHO the F700 series is a great midrange unit. In the last few years they have also offered a couple of nice table options instead of just the slider. I just checked the base price here and the list on the F700Z is $10,100.00 with the F900Z being $14,600.00 but that includes Powerdrive, so all in all here not a bad upgrade price. They also have a90th anniversary price deal on the equipment which could save you some more on the price.

John

 

[online421]

........

[member=60639]online421[/member] .. I can't imagine when I'd need a 940 over a 700. What sort of things are you making?

Just like most of guys here, I make solid wood furniture... one man shop. 9m x 6m shop space cramped with machines, SCM twin head 1100mm wide belt sander, Omga AL129, Robland NX410 Pro combi, SCM S400P band saw, Masterwood swing chisel mortiser, CP 10hp compressor, 4kw bag house extractor, pneumatic clamp panel and various Festool toys.

I do not have a joiner/carpenter/furniture maker background.

 

[online421]

Deep enough pockets can justify any purchase but then I'm a bit of a minimalist of sorts......They also have a90th anniversary price deal on the equipment which could save you some more on the price.

John

Thanks John. it looks like a F900Z maybe a huge overkill for what I do then... at the moment I use the spindle moulder once a week, each time I probably use it for 2-3 hours. I wish I had a better spindle moulder so I dont have to muck around with the setting up.

This lead me to think even a K940 is a bit too much, but the price differences isnt much then why not dive in?

4500 USD upgrade isnt a great deal when its spread out over 30-40 years. I am 36.

 

[junk731]

Overkill is always relative, I just checked CDN dollar vs NZ dollar and we are pretty close. I think the F900Z wouldn't be overkill over the long haul, just try and order things like extra spindles and accessories at time of purchase. Also the K940, completely new to me, looks like the K700 on steriods, base model is $12,200.00 here. Are they offering you the anniversary discount? If you can get an already configured machine they usually have a pretty good package for a great price.

John

 

[online421]

Overkill is always relative, I just checked CDN dollar vs NZ dollar and we are pretty close. I think the F900Z wouldn't be overkill over the long haul, just try and order things like extra spindles and accessories at time of purchase. Also the K940, completely new to me, looks like the K700 on steriods, base model is $12,200.00 here. Are they offering you the anniversary discount? If you can get an already configured machine they usually have a pretty good package for a great price.

John

Thanks John, $12200 is the price we pay for K700S here.. consider yourself lucky! the buying power of the Dollars really shows  [wink]

I have been looking at SCM SM as well, one of their offering for tenonning accessories got me interested:

[attachimg=1]

it seems to me this type of sliding table is more versatile than the traditional sliding table like the one on Felder? you can put the machine against a wall, the operating space of this type of spindle moulder is of a rectangular shape rather than a square shape as you do your tenonning and shaping. I really like this feature because of my space limitation.

The equivalent SCM Spindle moulder(if we simplify it and only talk in terms of weight) cost $3000 USD more than the F900z.....

I have actually spent $3000$USD last night, I bought a LV hand bag for my wife, I gotta obtain the authority approval before proceeding with the machine purchasing.

She was absolutely thrilled, I immediately used this opportunity to tell her I have been wanting to upgrade the machine and how much they cost. Needless to say, she greenlighted it when I told her it will be safer and faster so I will be able to spend more time with her...

That was the easy part.

The difficult part now is to choose the right machine! [tongue]