Felder RL125 or 160 vrs. Oneida Cyclone

[Iceclimber]

Anyone know anything about the Felder machines and how they stack up next to Onieda cyclones.

Im probably looking at a Oneida V3000 or the Felder RL125...

From what i can tell the RL series is Felders answer to the cyclone vrs. chip collector.

 

[junk731]

I'm currently running an RL160 after having a Clearvue CV1800 for 6 years. The first thing is while they are both DC's the RL work more like giant vacuums as opposed to cyclones. The Oneida you mention costs about 1500.00 while the RL125 is around 5000.00 and the RL160 is around 6500.00. One of the issues with cyclones is if you overfill the dustbin you start to fill up your filter which can be a major mess and cleanup. Because of the design you don't have the same issue with the RL's. The RL's depending on the size have manual or automatic filter cleaning. The Felder cfm ratings are measured more honestly then the Oneida IMHO mainly because of the Euro regulations. Looking at the chart for the V3000 this should become pretty clear if you have any knowledge about dust collection and SP. It would also be interesting to know where the Oneida unit is manufactured. I would recommend reading what Bill Pentz has to offer about dust collection before making any decision or purchase.

John

 

[stvrowe]

I have been running an RL 160 for about 5 years having upgraded from a 2 HP Blue Tornado cyclone with filter tubes that I had for 10 years.  I have no experience with the Oneida system you are considering.  There were a number of reasons I upgraded with the primary one being improved air quality.  The second reason is increased capacity when milling rough lumber - it is incredible how fast a 35 gallon drum fills up.

I agree with what John posted.  I have not done any air quality tests in my shop but have observed the following:
1) With the cyclone and filter tubes (a heavy high quality felt fabric) I noticed the collection of a very fine dust film collecting on the wall near the filter tubes.  I vacuumed this dust film about every 6-12 months depending on shop use.
2) With the RL 160, there has been zero visible dust film collecting on the wall near the dust collector discharge in the entire 5 years this system has been in service.

Based on my personal experiences, I would choose the Felder over the Oneida or any other cyclone every day of the week.  I would also look into the AL-KO units which have similar specs to the Felder RL series but it is a lot more $$$.

 

[rst]

The Oniedas are built in Syracuse NY and they offer and a drum level indicator to let you know when your bin is full.  I have two of the steel Dust Deputuys connected to my Fein vacs and they work great.  My long term plans are a 5HP high vac unit and  a CNT CNC router system. [tongue]

 

[Iceclimber]

Wow!

Those AL-KO units look like the real deal. Kinda wish you had not told me about them...

Any idea the cost for one that does 1000CFM for one tool at a time or what unit i should be looking into. I really don't want to ge annoying some sales person if they are well out of my league cost wise.

At the moment the RL125 can be had for $3100 i wonder is it enough machine to keep up with my Industrial SawStop, future Felder or Hammer 16" jointer planer and eventual wide belt sander.

If so i think i may go with it over the Onieda unless the AL-OK stuff ends up a viable option?

I have been running an RL 160 for about 5 years having upgraded from a 2 HP Blue Tornado cyclone with filter tubes that I had for 10 years.  I have no experience with the Oneida system you are considering.  There were a number of reasons I upgraded with the primary one being improved air quality.  The second reason is increased capacity when milling rough lumber - it is incredible how fast a 35 gallon drum fills up.

I agree with what John posted.  I have not done any air quality tests in my shop but have observed the following:
1) With the cyclone and filter tubes (a heavy high quality felt fabric) I noticed the collection of a very fine dust film collecting on the wall near the filter tubes.  I vacuumed this dust film about every 6-12 months depending on shop use.
2) With the RL 160, there has been zero visible dust film collecting on the wall near the dust collector discharge in the entire 5 years this system has been in service.

Based on my personal experiences, I would choose the Felder over the Oneida or any other cyclone every day of the week.  I would also look into the AL-KO units which have similar specs to the Felder RL series but it is a lot more $$$.

 

[Iceclimber]

Ok now what i want to know is if this http://www.al-ko.com/579.htm is what makes AL-KO units better than the competition?

 

[gsdvorak]

I, too, have been looking at the Oneida product so I'm very interested in this post.  My dust collection needs are on a smaller scale of things- I don't intend on getting a wide belt sander- I just need something to collect dust from thickness planer, table saw, jointer and 2 bandsaws.  My local dealer carries Oneida product so I'm somewhat familiar with them; however, I have only heard the name Felder.  Any input you can provide will be most appreciated.  Thanks in advance!

Regards,
Gerald

 

[Gary in Texas]

Okay, don't laugh, I'm putting a Grizzly product into a thread about Felder.......

Grizzly has introduced a new series of dust collectors that include canister filters (already existing on some of their models) but have now added HEPA filters also.  While some may be a little apprehensive about buying a major tool such as a cabinet saw from Grizzly, speaking from a quality perspective, I don't see this as an issue with the dust collector.  Grizzly' quality control apparently isn't that bad, they are kicking out a lot of products with minimal complaints. 

That is a lot of $$$$ to spend on a DC, and I'm sure it is probably worth it, I'm all for clean air!  But that does leave a lot of $$$$ for another major stationary tool....

Gary

 

[Mitchwood]

I run a RL125, it is used to extract from a CF531 Professional Combination Machine, It is definitely man enough to extract from the planer/thicknesser. I have had the RL125 since 2012, and am very pleased with it. I did consider the RL160 but didn't have sufficient space available for it.

 

[Iceclimber]

It is a lot of money!

I have also read some good reviews of the grizzly unit.

I meed to get some more feedback on the Felder u it before i can make a decision.

As i said on another forum i am not afraid to spend $$$ in the name of doing things right the first time provided one product is clearly superior and i will actually benefit from the additional funds spent even if only long term. If i am paying for features that i just dont need then i need to reel it in a bit and spend wisely.

For i stance do i really need a 16" jointer or will a 12" do it. And if i do need a 16" jointer planer is it really worth the addition $2500 for the Felder unit being it is clearly better tool. At some point i would think the Hammer is a quality tool and all any of us really could ever need.

I do like the electronic up and down feature on the Felder machine vrs the hand crank. Sure i have time to hand crank a machine but stuff like that does get annoying after you just spent $7k

So back to the Felder clean air system...

Who has got one?

Okay, don't laugh, I'm putting a Grizzly product into a thread about Felder.......

Grizzly has introduced a new series of dust collectors that include canister filters (already existing on some of their models) but have now added HEPA filters also.  While some may be a little apprehensive about buying a major tool such as a cabinet saw from Grizzly, speaking from a quality perspective, I don't see this as an issue with the dust collector.  Grizzly' quality control apparently isn't that bad, they are kicking out a lot of products with minimal complaints. 

That is a lot of $$$$ to spend on a DC, and I'm sure it is probably worth it, I'm all for clean air!  But that does leave a lot of $$$$ for another major stationary tool....

Gary

 

[Iceclimber]

That is exactly what i want to hear as i only have room for the 125. I have a perfect spot for it. It will fit nice neat and tidy as apposed to some caddy cornered cyclone with a giant barrel hanging off it.

I imagine it handles fine dust like a champ?

Anything you have figured out since owning it that you do not like i might like to know?

.

I run a RL125, it is used to extract from a CF531 Professional Combination Machine, It is definitely man enough to extract from the planer/thicknesser. I have had the RL125 since 2012, and am very pleased with it. I did consider the RL160 but didn't have sufficient space available for it.

 

[Mitchwood]

There isn't really anything that I don't like. Just a few points you need to be aware of.
It is worth cleaning the filter when the bag/hopper is empty, then all the fine dust is at the bottom and not sitting on top of a full bag.
Need to check the hopper so you don't overfill (it is easy to overfill if you are planing/thicknesing all day). Overfilling involves cleaning out above the hopper, lots of dust and chips on the floor, definitely requires mask and goggles or full face mask.
Bags are not cheap but can be reused, this does involve transferring waste to a different bag. This isn't that bad as a full Felder bag is quite heavy. I usually wheel the hopper outside and transfer waste to smaller bags without removing the Felder bag.
All in it is a compact efficient machine, my workshops much cleaner now and I'm sure it's much better for my health.

 

[Iceclimber]

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Couple more questions. Does the system have a remote. If not what is Felders solution.

Also does the RL 125 have. Single phase option and what amperage breaker does its 4 horse motor require?

There isn't really anything that I don't like. Just a few points you need to be aware of.
It is worth cleaning the filter when the bag/hopper is empty, then all the fine dust is at the bottom and not sitting on top of a full bag.
Need to check the hopper so you don't overfill (it is easy to overfill if you are planing/thicknesing all day). Overfilling involves cleaning out above the hopper, lots of dust and chips on the floor, definitely requires mask and goggles or full face mask.
Bags are not cheap but can be reused, this does involve transferring waste to a different bag. This isn't that bad as a full Felder bag is quite heavy. I usually wheel the hopper outside and transfer waste to smaller bags without removing the Felder bag.
All in it is a compact efficient machine, my workshops much cleaner now and I'm sure it's much better for my health.

 

[rst]

One note about dust collectors... industrial collectors are required by fire code to have non-ferrous impellers.  This insures that if a stray piece of ferric metal hits the fan there will be no sparking.  All of Oneidas fans have aluminum alloy blades thus reducing the chance of sparking.

 

[Iceclimber]

I would imagine the Felder unit complies.

Eventually i will add a spark trap to ensure i don't ever have a mistake..

One note about dust collectors... industrial collectors are required by fire code to have non-ferrous impellers.  This insures that if a stray piece of ferric metal hits the fan there will be no sparking.  All of Oneidas fans have aluminum alloy blades thus reducing the chance of sparking.

 

[junk731]

I would imagine the Felder unit complies.

Eventually i will add a spark trap to ensure i don't ever have a mistake..

One note about dust collectors... industrial collectors are required by fire code to have non-ferrous impellers.  This insures that if a stray piece of ferric metal hits the fan there will be no sparking.  All of Oneidas fans have aluminum alloy blades thus reducing the chance of sparking.

The fan of the RL's fan blades are not in contact with the dust and debris like it is with other forms of dust collection. The RL125 is a single phase unit and can be started remotely with an Ivac type switching system. While the bags from Felder an expense and can be reused I use a lighter bag available from Uline that works great and just depose of it. While overfilling can be messy its not half as bad as a complete filter cleaning involved when a cyclone overfills, speaking from personal experience on both counts. There is a sight window to see when the bag is getting full with no need for a sensor.

John

 

[Iceclimber]

It seems like the RL125 is gonna win the spot in my shop over the Oneida system.

Sure its a few bucks more and maybe ill have to separate the purchase of the dust collector and jointer planer combo.

In the end i think ill be glad i took my time and got what i wanted vrs trying to stretch a buck so i can get more tools in a shorter amount of time.

Reality is this unit will sit while i save for Norfab duct work. Ill just run a section of flex hose to each machine for a while. The aggravation for a short time will be well worth it long term.

At least i hope

 

I would imagine the Felder unit complies.

Eventually i will add a spark trap to ensure i don't ever have a mistake..

One note about dust collectors... industrial collectors are required by fire code to have non-ferrous impellers.  This insures that if a stray piece of ferric metal hits the fan there will be no sparking.  All of Oneidas fans have aluminum alloy blades thus reducing the chance of sparking.

The fan of the RL's fan blades are not in contact with the dust and debris like it is with other forms of dust collection. The RL125 is a single phase unit and can be started remotely with an Ivac type switching system. While the bags from Felder an expense and can be reused I use a lighter bag available from Uline that works great and just depose of it. While overfilling can be messy its not half as bad as a complete filter cleaning involved when a cyclone overfills, speaking from personal experience on both counts. There is a sight window to see when the bag is getting full with no need for a sensor.

John

 

[stvrowe]

John is correct on no contact with moving equipment on the debris side of the unit.  I use a 10 cu. ft. compactor bag from McMaster-Carr that is heavy duty and much less expensive than the Felder bags.  I often re-use the bags.  Just like a cyclone, you don't want to overfill the bins as you will end up doing a lot of cleanup.  I use the heavy duty Penn State Industries remote to control my RL 160 but mine is a 3 phase unit.  It will also work with single phase and it can handle up to 7.5 HP. 

My memory has decayed somewhat on the AL-KO units.  From what I remember (over 6 years), what struck me the most about its performance was how quiet it was.  What also struck me was the price, as I recall it was in the $7K ballpark which was well outside of my price range. If you want a quote on the AL-KO, contact Carl at Martin USA.  He will send you brochures and a quote via email.  He has been helpful to me in the past and is not a pushy sales person. 

I have many reservations for a variety of reasons about filtration claims from many dust collection systems marketed in the USA (including some specified in this thread).  Usually, the seller portrays efficiency of the filter (xxx microns @ 99.x% efficiency) and often provides a link to some 3rd party manufacturer of the filter element.  I have yet to see any test data representing the overall effectiveness of how the dust collection system performs especially given that all the cyclone units have positive pressures downstream of the blower with fine debris in the stream.  Remember the amount of debris that exits the system could be significant and that is the fine stuff that enters your lungs. 

On the other hand, I have no reservations about the European made machine claims.  Filter efficiency is not referenced but the downstream air quality is.  In the case of Felder and AL-KO, it is presented as

 

[Iceclimber]

Such great info. Thank you for taking the time to respond as you did.

Im a carpenter by trade so my exposure to all kinds of construction debris is huge. Most of my days are spent  indoors huffing saw dust, pvc dust, mastic dust, composite dust. At the end of the day the stuff that comes out of my lungs is horrific.

This unit is for my home workshop so it actually working is paramount to me as i am also concerned with the health of my family.

Felder it will be as im just cant spend 7-10k on a dust collector. If that be the case i suppose i should opt out of the 10K Felder Ad741 and just stick with the Hammer A3-41  

John is correct on no contact with moving equipment on the debris side of the unit.  I use a 10 cu. ft. compactor bag from McMaster-Carr that is heavy duty and much less expensive than the Felder bags.  I often re-use the bags.  Just like a cyclone, you don't want to overfill the bins as you will end up doing a lot of cleanup.  I use the heavy duty Penn State Industries remote to control my RL 160 but mine is a 3 phase unit.  It will also work with single phase and it can handle up to 7.5 HP. 

My memory has decayed somewhat on the AL-KO units.  From what I remember (over 6 years), what struck me the most about its performance was how quiet it was.  What also struck me was the price, as I recall it was in the $7K ballpark which was well outside of my price range. If you want a quote on the AL-KO, contact Carl at Martin USA.  He will send you brochures and a quote via email.  He has been helpful to me in the past and is not a pushy sales person. 

I have many reservations for a variety of reasons about filtration claims from many dust collection systems marketed in the USA (including some specified in this thread).  Usually, the seller portrays efficiency of the filter (xxx microns @ 99.x% efficiency) and often provides a link to some 3rd party manufacturer of the filter element.  I have yet to see any test data representing the overall effectiveness of how the dust collection system performs especially given that all the cyclone units have positive pressures downstream of the blower with fine debris in the stream.  Remember the amount of debris that exits the system could be significant and that is the fine stuff that enters your lungs. 

On the other hand, I have no reservations about the European made machine claims.  Filter efficiency is not referenced but the downstream air quality is.  In the case of Felder and AL-KO, it is presented as

 

[Mitchwood]

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Couple more questions. Does the system have a remote. If not what is Felders solution.

Also does the RL 125 have. Single phase option and what amperage breaker does its 4 horse motor require?

They are available in the UK single or three phase, Felder charge more for the single phase.
The unit does not come with remote, although Felder sell a add on remote so you can plug additional machines in, I do not have a remote on mine, I think the felder unit is not cheap, my RL is 3 phase and my CF531 is single phase. I don't find it a problem switching it on and off as the machine is run for quite long periods not like the hand held tools where I wouldn't be without the auto start on the Festool Vacs.

My CF531 as a single phase unit runs on a 16 amp circuit, so I would guess that the same would be true of a single phase RL.