Festool KS88 Kapex Saw Set

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paddy_oshea

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Feb 19, 2014
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[sad]

I am high school teacher and bought this system for my workshop. I read a review which said the Festool was the best compound mitre saw around and decided to get one, having bought the Domino Jointer last year. My dealer said that for extra $ it came with a stand, so I said sure, I'll have that as well. The saw arrived and we quickly assembled it in the workshop.
The saw is great, very pleased with the product.
THE STAND IS A RIDICULOUS CATASTROPHE WHICH SHOULD BE BANNED DUE TO RISK OF INJURTY TO SMALL CHILDREN!!!
It is made out of thin tube, the type you find in kiddies playground equipment from Aldi. It is held together with 1/4" plastic head wing nuts. It only has one leg at the end, which when accidently kicked out, would send your $1500 saw crashing to the ground.
In short, it is an absolute piece of crap.
So I ring my dealer and tell him the saw is great, but the stand won't do. He says fine, bring it back in and we'll return it.
Da dooo.
Festool says NO! You bought it as a package deal and you cannot return the stand . EVEN THOUGH THE THING IS A PIECE OF CRAP AND DOESN'T DO THE BASIC JOB IT IS ADVERTISED FOR - WHICH IS HOLD UP THE SAW AND THE WOOD YOU WANT TO CUT ON IT!!!

Sooo, get this. I have to return the Saw and the Stand (which I waited 3 months for - and I have YR 12 kids stressing over Major Works) and then I can buy another Saw singularly - presumably with a similar 3 month wait while my Yr12 kids FAIL THEIR HSC!!!

Thank Christ, my local dealer came to the rescue and bailed me out. Sold off the Stand at below cost and lost a squillion on the deal. Thanks so much Industrial Replacements, Batemans Bay and thanks for Jack Festool.

p.s I am copying this link to a teachers forum of about 2000 teachers across Australia to forwarn them of the attitude of this company.

Not happy in so many ways.

 
I have nothing but respect of the service i have received from Festool Australia.  I had a minor issue once and they  looked after me very well.

Before you go to far maybe send them an e-mail or call explaining your thoughts and opinions.  Have you spoken to them directly or just through your dealer?

3 months to get a KS 88 Kapex.... seems like a very long wait for such a popular product
 
In the USA, the stand is an accessory, not a package deal with the Kapex.  Did you try to contact Festool Australia before going viral?  I find that I usually get the best results by being calm, direct, and polite.  My business dealings, with Festool USA and its dealers, have been superlative.
 
you could have bought the other stand, the more stable one that has more legs and in not intended to be as light or transportable.

my kapex arrived to my house from germany in 5 days. and it was the exact one I spent a lot of time researching and ordered.
I use it everyday with its lovely clever fold up stand and wheels.
 
I'm sorry to read about your situation.  And frankly more so about the appearance that your primary reason to join here was to use this forum as a soap box to vent and then use your posting here - and the popularity of this forum - as basically a method to the reputation of the manufacturer.  Typically that is referred to as flaming.  I recognize that you are under a lot of stress.

Saying that, I have read your post more than a dozen times and honestly would suggest that you re-read your post playing the role of a parent, a fellow educator, an employer.  Attempting to go "viral" can work both ways.

Peter Halle - member
 
Why the big rant? Festool have stuck by an amazing returns policy to the letter and your dealer has lost money to exceed that agreement. Festool don't make anything as bad as you have described and even if it is that unsuitable can we discuss where Festool's responsibility ends in specifying equipment for given environments and where your's starts?
 
paddy_oshea said:
[sad]

I am high school teacher and bought this system for my workshop. I read a review which said the Festool was the best compound mitre saw around and decided to get one, having bought the Domino Jointer last year. My dealer said that for extra $ it came with a stand, so I said sure, I'll have that as well. The saw arrived and we quickly assembled it in the workshop.
The saw is great, very pleased with the product.
THE STAND IS A RIDICULOUS CATASTROPHE WHICH SHOULD BE BANNED DUE TO RISK OF INJURTY TO SMALL CHILDREN!!!
It is made out of thin tube, the type you find in kiddies playground equipment from Aldi. It is held together with 1/4" plastic head wing nuts. It only has one leg at the end, which when accidently kicked out, would send your $1500 saw crashing to the ground.
In short, it is an absolute piece of crap.
So I ring my dealer and tell him the saw is great, but the stand won't do. He says fine, bring it back in and we'll return it.
Da dooo.
Festool says NO! You bought it as a package deal and you cannot return the stand . EVEN THOUGH THE THING IS A PIECE OF CRAP AND DOESN'T DO THE BASIC JOB IT IS ADVERTISED FOR - WHICH IS HOLD UP THE SAW AND THE WOOD YOU WANT TO CUT ON IT!!!

Sooo, get this. I have to return the Saw and the Stand (which I waited 3 months for - and I have YR 12 kids stressing over Major Works) and then I can buy another Saw singularly - presumably with a similar 3 month wait while my Yr12 kids FAIL THEIR HSC!!!

Thank Christ, my local dealer came to the rescue and bailed me out. Sold off the Stand at below cost and lost a squillion on the deal. Thanks so much Industrial Replacements, Batemans Bay and thanks for Jack Festool.

p.s I am copying this link to a teachers forum of about 2000 teachers across Australia to forwarn them of the attitude of this company.

Not happy in so many ways.
Click to expand...

Makes sense - I'd be pretty mad if a company was not willing to work with me on an issue like this.  
Sounds like you bought the wrong stand and the saw is in its return period (working with kids in a classroom - I agree fold-up stand has a potential for nasty accidents/liability), but I totally get it with the timeline and Festool Australia really being unhelpful with return options.  Seems to me they could have found a way to make things work.
Personally I'm glad you posted like this - posts like this keep company's honest IMO, and they inform other potential buyers - so glad you posted the issue.   It shows the importance of good dealers who can provide support even when Festool doesn't .
 
Paddy, I'm sorry to hear about your dissatisfaction with the Kapex UG. While I disagree that it's not adequately built, each person has their own needs and expectations. The single legs on the extensions do not support the saw, so it if was knocked loose for some reason, the saw would not fall.

The Kapex and Kapex UG are classified as tools. I believe Festool Australia has the same 30-day money back guarantee on tools as the U.S./Canada. So, you should have had no issues with a return or exchange. That 30-day period is for situations just like this where the product was purchased sight unseen or did not meet your expectations/requirements. There's no reason, in my opinion, that the dealer couldn't have simply issued a credit for the difference once you returned the stand.

Like others have asked, did you contact Festool Australia? Or, did you dealer tell you that Festool said you couldn't return it? I have contacted a colleague there to find out their policies and what they know of this situation.

Shane
 
Well, part of the mystery may be solved...

Industrial Replacements of Batemans Bay, is not a Festool authorized dealer. They are unknown by Festool Australia and do not appear on the Festool Australia website as a dealer.

That may explain why it took 3+ months to get your products and probably why there were issues with the return/exchange. I suspect you were told by Industrial Replacements, not by Festool, that it couldn't be returned.  Buying from an unauthorized dealer may affect your ability to obtain warranty service. You may also want to make sure you were not overcharged for the product since they presumably purchased them from an authorized dealer and then resold them to you.

My colleague at Festool Australia was unaware of this situation and said it does not align with their policies.

It would probably be in your best interest to contact Festool Australia, if you have not already done so. Be sure to provide them with the serial number from your Kapex so that it can be registered properly for warranty purposes. I would also advise that you not purchase Festool products from Industrial Replacements any more as they are not an authorized dealer.

This is likely an issue caused solely due to the purchase being made from an unauthorized dealer and how they opted to handle the matter, and not by Festool or its policies as stated.

Shane
 
Great find Shane! Festool is such a great company that no wonder it stems from using a sketchy dealer.

UG stand is awesome by the way
 
Wow, I'm surprised by the comments , I have the UG stand and I love it , I don't think it's the greatest stand out there it could be a little wider but it's stable enough and even if I knock a leg off it won't  drop the saw since it's attached to the cart I'm using it everyday around my guys and other workers bumping into it with no problems.
 
Glad that you were able to track down the "rest of the story" as the OP comments seem to me to be over the top in regards to what one would expect from Festool.  Bet he doesn't have have so set to copy the real story to the 2000 teachers showing that one should have all the facts before shooting off our mouth.
 
I have had experience using customer service directly with Festool and it was excellent. After a few questions to see if they could resolve the issue over the phone they shipped me the necessary replacement part to my door at no cost to me. I have also taken advantage of the 30 day money back guarantee through an authorised dealer and I was able to return the tool for a full refund with no questions asked. This is just based on my experience.
 
Paddy - you did some research on the KS88....How about the UG stand?
I suspect not...
Did YOU contact Festool Australia to try and resolve the matter?
The UG stand is not crap - I would not use it in a school workshop. It's great for on site use or workshops where there aren't small children!
Hopefully your colleaques will see this post for what it is...

 
[size=11pt]

I was suspicious of this from my first reading because -

1. Festool Australia's Premium and other Dealers are listed on their website, did you check?

http://www.festool.com.au/epages/tooltechnic.sf/en_AU/?ObjectPath=/Shops/tooltechnic/Categories/Dealers/Dealer_locator

2. When there was a shortage of Kapex units late tast year, Festool Aust, according to a sales rep at my Premium dealer, was flying in units ahead of shipments to fulfil orders (This tells me they go the extra kilometre to ensure stock is available.).

If you wanted something sturdy in a school workshop, I would see 'liability' problems in an education setting with most portable stands of the major manufacturers. And why would you need portability in a fixed situation?

 
paddy_oshea said:
[sad]

I am high school teacher and bought this system for my workshop. I read a review which said the Festool was the best compound mitre saw around and decided to get one, having bought the Domino Jointer last year. My dealer said that for extra $ it came with a stand, so I said sure, I'll have that as well. The saw arrived and we quickly assembled it in the workshop.
The saw is great, very pleased with the product.
THE STAND IS A RIDICULOUS CATASTROPHE WHICH SHOULD BE BANNED DUE TO RISK OF INJURTY TO SMALL CHILDREN!!!
It is made out of thin tube, the type you find in kiddies playground equipment from Aldi. It is held together with 1/4" plastic head wing nuts. It only has one leg at the end, which when accidently kicked out, would send your $1500 saw crashing to the ground.
In short, it is an absolute piece of crap.
So I ring my dealer and tell him the saw is great, but the stand won't do. He says fine, bring it back in and we'll return it.
Da dooo.
Festool says NO! You bought it as a package deal and you cannot return the stand . EVEN THOUGH THE THING IS A PIECE OF CRAP AND DOESN'T DO THE BASIC JOB IT IS ADVERTISED FOR - WHICH IS HOLD UP THE SAW AND THE WOOD YOU WANT TO CUT ON IT!!!

Sooo, get this. I have to return the Saw and the Stand (which I waited 3 months for - and I have YR 12 kids stressing over Major Works) and then I can buy another Saw singularly - presumably with a similar 3 month wait while my Yr12 kids FAIL THEIR HSC!!!

Thank Christ, my local dealer came to the rescue and bailed me out. Sold off the Stand at below cost and lost a squillion on the deal. Thanks so much Industrial Replacements, Batemans Bay and thanks for Jack Festool.

p.s I am copying this link to a teachers forum of about 2000 teachers across Australia to forwarn them of the attitude of this company.

Not happy in so many ways.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't normally be as blunt as this (particularly to a new member) but since you obviously just joined purely to have a rant, I will too.

If you did the research on the saw as you claimed, you couldn't possibly have not seen at least a picture of the stand. The stand (with the wings) is not cheap - I've just checked on festool.com.au, and the KS88 is $1400. The set with the stand and wings is $2250. That's a difference of $850, or another 65% on top. If I bought a saw of that value, and then the supplier rang me and said "hey, you can have a stand too for another 65% on top, there's no WAY I'd just say "oh, err... ok".

And, in all your 'research', you failed to find an authorised dealer, and thought it perfectly normal to wait 3 months for a saw.

I don't own the stand, but my mate does, and it does EXACTLY what it's designed to do. Sure, it's not perfect, but it works as advertised. It's designed to be highly portable (which it is), be quick & easy to set up (which it is) and to adequately support the saw (which it does) and the work you're cutting (which it also does). It isn't advertised as a stand to be used in a classroom full of kids that are dumb enough to try to kick the legs out from underneath it.

To try to blame Festool for your kids potentially failing their HSC is, quite frankly, pathetic. If they fail, it's not because of Festool, it's because YOU failed to do your job properly & ensure they had the right tools needed in plenty of time. If your kids failed an exam because you didn't receive the box of pens you'd ordered a week before, would you be ranting like this at UPS?

I really hope when you posted this on the teacher's forum, you linked directly to this thread, so all 2000 of them can see the truth.

Rant over.

[ Edited to conform to forum guidelines - Shane ]
 
I guess Festool should have a printed label on their equipment like "keep away from children"...... [smile]
 
Whilst the facts about what happened appear to have
been established - I am very concerned about the possibility of cultural issues
that may have arisen.
The manner in which the OP expressed himself, may just be an Aussie
way of explaining some mild irritation.
So I say 'good on ya cobber' - and look forward to your response.

Richard.

[ Edited to remove political comments - Shane ]
 
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