Festool KS88 Kapex Saw Set

[Administrator_JSVN]

While I'm sure some of you may have strong opinions in light of the facts I posted, let's keep the posts cordial. Thanks.

Just a quick update... I emailed the OP two days ago and have yet to have received a response.

Shane

 

[GarryMartin]

Just a quick update... I emailed the OP two days ago and have yet to have received a response.

Maybe it's just me, but I've noticed over the last few months that a lot of new members with very few (if any) posts come on to complain about Festool or it's products in one way or another. That seems a little strange to me. If I had a problem with something I'd bought, my first port of call would be the supplier, and only if I was unhappy with their response would I contact the manufacturer.

I don't think I'd ever join a public forum just to complain about a product or service. OK, the FOG may be a little different in terms of the excellent support the Festool USA staff provide, but this is an owner's group after all.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

Garry, unfortunately I think in a world of poor (or mediocre at best) customer service, other companies have conditioned consumers that they have to resort to sometimes extreme measures to get the company's attention and what they truly deserve. I know there are times when I contact a company for support and I feel like I have to prepare myself for a battle before I even pick up the phone. I don't have an issue with even first-time posters sharing problems they are having with the tools and/or company. I do my best, even in instances where the customer is abroad, to offer exceptional customer service every time. Most of the time, the customer is frustrated and just wants to have things made right. In working with my colleagues in other countries, I think we as a company have a shared philosophy on customer service and do our best to treat every customer like they are our only customer or most important customer. That's one of the reasons I like working for Festool.

Shane

 

[bwiele]

Good on you Shane!

 

[GarryMartin]

Garry, unfortunately I think in a world of poor (or mediocre at best) customer service, other companies have conditioned consumers that they have to resort to sometimes extreme Most of the time, the customer is frustrated and just wants to have things made right. In working with my colleagues in other countries, I think we as a company have a shared philosophy on customer service and do our best to treat every customer like they are our only customer or most important customer. That's one of the reasons I like working for Festool.

Don't get me wrong, I think you do a fantastic job. I'd like to see more Festool GB people on the board, but I understand they probably have different priorities.

I guess what I was trying to say, quite badly, is that I've started to question whether some of these posts are people with real problems, or some sort of targeted campaign against Festool and its products. Some people come back to the thread after their initial complaints, some even solve their problems, so I can see that even with my suspicious mind, some are genuine.

Then there are others that post about how rubbish something is and what bad service they'd had, and then disappear completely...

 

[Sparky]

I think it has to do with the fact I am sure he didn't even pay for the saw, the school board did. You get these guys spending others money or there money not doing research on what the tool or accessories are designed for then want to complain about how poorly the product performs. When he bought the stand from a non dealer who didn't understand or should have recommended that probably wouldn't be suitable for a classroom of kids/youth that don't grasp the importance of shop safety. Which the teacher should have thought of since I am sure safety is top priority to teach students. Since I highly doubt it was even his money spent. Then you get the people who complain and seem to believe the tool will magically make them a good woodworker because they have more money then desire to learn proper technique and use of the tools they buy. Before a rant is made a guy should privately talk to festool themselves about the product before coming here and posting.

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

I see what you're saying now, Garry. Yes, it's a possibility that some complaints are, for lack of a better word, manufactured to discredit Festool. Corporate sabotage by adversaries of the brand, not even necessarily associated with a competitor, or maybe so. It has happened before. There was a big court case here in the U.S. many years ago where, the CEO of a company was on a forum posting negative things about a competitor under an alias. He was caught and fined a steep amount in damages.

I don't like to make such accusations personally. I think when I do due diligence, as I've done in this case, there's enough information for readers to make up their own minds.

Are we never at fault or never make mistakes? Absolutely not. It's what you make of those mistakes that is the difference. Just like a member's post earlier in the week about getting a Planex hose with two CT ends and no tool end connector. The tool end connector was in the mail the next day, no questions asked, and to keep the customer from having to travel or make calls.

I think our record shows what type of company we are.

Shane

 

[Stephen B]

Whilst the facts about what happened appear to have
been established - I am very concerned about the possibility of cultural issues
that may have arisen.
The manner in which the OP expressed himself, may just be an Aussie
way of explaining some mild irritation.
So I say 'good on ya cobber' - and look forward to your response.

Richard.

[ Edited to remove political comments - Shane ]

[size=11pt]
G'Day,

'Strewth' (good grief). 'Mate' (friend or foe depending on context, here friend)  'culta', got nothing to do with it.

'Fair dinkum'  this 'fella' should have had a 'Captain Cook' (looked and checked it out) and then gone down the pub, had a pot/schooner (large glass of beer), 'shouted' (paid for his friend's beer), gone home and 'thrown down' a 'slab' (24) of 'tinnies' (cans of beer) and had a big think.

'What a Sook', (acting like a baby) [big grin]

 

[andy5405]

I can't help thinking that kids don't need a Kapex to do school projects. Sure it's a great saw but I think the OP wanted it for his own use. If I was his head teacher I'd have in my office and ask him to justify the expense.

 

[Timtool]

Well first off i didn't know they had Aldi down under.

Second, i worked about a week with someone who had the UG set and i thought it was a nice piece of kit.

Third, it frightens me that someone like that teaches 12 yo's woodworking. thinking that a job site stand is a good idea for kids in a classroom. Also why was getting the cheaper kapex 88 a flimsy stand, more important than getting the proper kapex 120 right away, with lasers that could save your kids from cutting their fingers off.
Was there no miter saw at all in the school before this? I can't think of anything that only a miter saw can do in woodworking, teach your kids to do with what is available and be inventive. Why not spend a lesson with them building a table for it. It is your job to teach them that in their future work it will be nothing but problems they will need to solve inventively, venting on a forum is not the best example.

 

[Stephen B]

Well first off i didn't know they had Aldi down Under . .,.

[size=12pt]

Sure do, they are breeding faster than another import from Europe - rabbits!

 

[ccarrolladams]

So many things about the original post starting this topic disturbs me. I am an American who has spent a lot of my life working in virtually every State in Australia. It has been my pleasure to have become friends with hundreds of Australian educators ranging from per-school through graduate professional degree programs.

Consequently I am shocked that the OP decided to cross post his rant to a forum for educators without correcting so many basic language and spelling problems. Had he not claimed to be an educator none of the language issues would be important.

Who signed the requisition? Besides the OP teacher, you would assume before public money was spent of equipment for a classroom at least one level of supervisor and probably a purchasing agent would be involved. One would hope more than one qualified dealer would have a chance to submit a bid or proposal. One would hope the due diligence would ensure the dealer was authorized to sell Festools and ensure warranty/return policy protection.

With respect to a non-Australian Festool dealer, I fail to see how lasers are going to reduce injury to users of a SCMS. Under the appropriate circumstances lasers can increase the efficiency and accuracy of a SCMS. But safe usage of any saw, especially a SCMS is more than keeping fingers well away from the blade. Festool has done an excellent job of designing the KS88 as well as the K120 Kapex to be as safe as practical. Keeping students safe from all the other potential dangers of miter saw operation requires skill and attention of the teacher.

Quite frankly nothing this OP in his single post on The FOG suggests to me he has the skill, experience or temperament to effective teach anything to children age 12, never mind sophisticated woodworking requiring a professional-quality SCMS. Perhaps this "educator" should teach use of manual miter boxes and back-saws.

It would be fascinating to learn the reaction of the other 2,000 educators participating in the unnamed forum. Do they consider this rant as appropriate?

 

[peter halle]

Hey everyone,

When I read this thread for the first time days ago I certainly had the same sort of feelings that many of you did.  I notified Shane and asked whether or not my post was out of line.  Shane took the bull by the horn and reached out to Festool Australia in an effort to help the situation and also get answers to reported issues.

The results have been posted here, the original posting member as of this morning has not signed back in to the forum and in an effort to prevent what we call "piling on"  I am going to lock the thread because honestly I think that it will only degrade from here.

Peter Halle - Moderator

 

[Administrator_JSVN]

For the sake of public record and because the thread is now locked, I'd like to share correspondence I received from the OP, Paddy.

I am removing a couple of sentences referencing links and prices of a competitive saw stand since that is irrelevant to the nature of the thread.

Industrial Replacements have a Festool stand/fixture with various products displayed, some pamphlets on the various machines and some advertising signage above it, all clearly supplied by a Festool rep and have been selling Festool equipment here on the coast for at least 5 years that I know of.

Whether Festool Australia recognises them as an "authorized dealer" is irrelevant. Festool Australia was contacted by Industrial Replacements using their 1800 063 900 number advertised on their web site, firstly by the salesman, then by the Office Manager and thirdly by the Manager. I would assume Festool record these phone calls.

On each occasion they were told that the Saw and Stand was a package and could not be returned singularly. IR agreed,( since we had thrown out the box and the kids had been using the stand for three days,) that they would buy another Saw, bundle it with the Stand and return it, but the option came up for them to sell the Stand to another customer who already had a Saw (at a discounted price)

I believe if IR are not authorized dealers, maybe they should be, as their level of service has been fantastic.

I received a lot of other criticisms on the Forum for numerous other things, all of which I am too busy to bother replying to.

We tried ringing Festool Australia and found the level of assistance not good enough. Hence the rant. At least it got the attention of senior management and hopefully if we have further problems, we are looked after better.


I happened to watch a program the other night on fraudulent product knock offs. One of the companies most affected by rip offs was Beats headphones. Consumers were buying China made knock offs online that looked very similar to the real deal and were advertised as such. When they received them, they found that they were very inferior in quality.

Unfortunately, it's not always obvious that a product or retailer is not on the up-and-up. In the end, the consumer and/or brand can be negatively effected. I still fear that's the case here.

As not to incite further negative comments toward the OP, the thread will remain locked and I will continue to work with him outside of the forum to see if we can prevent this from happening again and to make sure his tool is properly registered for warranty purposes.

Shane