Festool Orbital Sanders: Sandpaper Life With and Without Dust Extraction

[Phoenix]

Does anyone have any experience or data showing sandpaper lasts longer with dust extraction?

We have three sanders and two dust extractors in our shop, but we are considering another for use where we will not have an extractor.  Will sandpaper loading significantly decrease the life of the sandpaper?

 

[Xoncention]

Does anyone have any experience or data showing sandpaper lasts longer with dust extraction?

We have three sanders and two dust extractors in our shop, but we are considering another for use where we will not have an extractor.  Will sandpaper loading significantly decrease the life of the sandpaper?

3M have done a great deal of research in this area and have some pretty technical information on the subject.  There are many sanding sub straights permutations and configurations.  On average you will get about 4 times longer pad life if you use dust extraction.  This is but a ball park figure as there are a very large number of variables.  That is why there are so many grades and types of disks available too.  Choosing the correct formulation is the fist step.

 

[Phoenix]

Thanks.  Is there a Festool sandpaper line that is designed for improved use without extraction?

 

[Xoncention]

Thanks.  Is there a Festool sandpaper line that is designed for improved use without extraction?

I do not think so.  Someone may have experimented with sanding without dust extraction and may have some results of their endeavors.  Festool design their tools to be integrated, both laterally and vertically.  It is a methodology that has a synergy that stems from the German way of thinking.  Anyway, it is better for ones health to not be sucking in dust while we are working.

 

[ear3]

You might want to ask Festool directly, but just to speculate for a moment -- the handsanding paper options are limited to Granat and Brilliant, which presumably means those hold up best when used in a context of zero dust extraction.  My own personal experience is that the Granat performs better overall in hand sanding.  Even though the Brilliant is supposed to resist clogging, I find it not only clogs worse than the Granat when hand sanding, but you also burn through the abrasive much more easily than on the Granat.  The burning problem is obviously exacerbated by the different friction patterns of hand sanding, where you're much more likely to apply wear to the same part of the paper than you do on the randomized pattern of an ROS, but even so, I have found the Granat to resist that type of burnout of the paper itself much longer than the Brilliant.

Thanks.  Is there a Festool sandpaper line that is designed for improved use without extraction?

 

[Holmz]

It may also depend on the sander. My DEROS rooster tails a dusty plume out just from the sander's fan, so I think that ETS/EC and/or any sander with a bag would likely more some air through the pad.

So the purpose of a vacuum may be more for the person sanding then for the sander and the paper?

 

[Shane Holland]

Edward, I don't think it's safe to assume that just because Festool's choice for hand sanding sheets is Granat that it means it's going to last longer without dust extraction. I think they chose Granat because it's the abrasive line with the broadest capabilities as far as which applications it can be used for. Rubin is just for bare wood, for instance, so it wouldn't be good as a general purpose abrasive. Granat can be used for just about anything. I would say Saphir would last the longest without dust extraction because he stuff is tough as nails. But, it's not made for general purpose sanding and is only available in lower grits.

I think the answer is that if it's true that 3M did a study and there's empirical data that a dust extractor will more than pay for itself over the lifetime of the sander through savings in consumables. I know Festool has done similar testing with similar results. There's just no substitute for dust extraction when it comes to abrasives life.

 

[Holmz]

Edward, I don't think it's safe to assume that just because Festool's choice for hand sanding sheets is Granat that it means it's going to last longer without dust extraction. I think they chose Granat because it's the abrasive line with the broadest capabilities as far as which applications it can be used for. Rubin is just for bare wood, for instance, so it wouldn't be good as a general purpose abrasive. Granat can be used for just about anything. I would say Saphir would last the longest without dust extraction because he stuff is tough as nails. But, it's not made for general purpose sanding and is only available in lower grits.

I think the answer is that if it's true that 3M did a study and there's empirical data that a dust extractor will more than pay for itself over the lifetime of the sander through savings in consumables. I know Festool has done similar testing with similar results. There's just no substitute for dust extraction when it comes to abrasives life.

I would like to Festool's study rather than second hand interpretation.

I found this 3M piecehttp://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/...ing-discs-and-sheets.pdf?fn=Clean Sanding.pdf
And that talks mostly about the paper having more holes, as well as a mention of using it with a bag.

So I wonder if the Mirka screens last longer because they more holey then a paper with just a fewer number of large holes?

Secondly, if the vacuum needs to be cranked down to the lowest setting then one would imagine that the paper would not last as long as using a higher airflow.

Interesting stuff if there were some metrics.

 

[Shane Holland]

Holmz, I don't think Festool ever publicly published their study. I thought I had seen a video at one point on the topic. But I looked on the Festool YouTube channels and couldn't find anything.

Also, I personally was involved in a side-by-side comparison of Abranet vs. Granat and the results were that Granat lasted longer. This was using an ETS 150 sander with a weight mounted to the top of each to ensure the exact same pressure was being applied.

Shane

 

[Xoncention]

Holmz, I don't think Festool ever publicly published their study. I thought I had seen a video at one point on the topic. But I looked on the Festool YouTube channels and couldn't find anything.

Also, I personally was involved in a side-by-side comparison of Abranet vs. Granat and the results were that Granat lasted longer. This was using an ETS 150 sander with a weight mounted to the top of each to ensure the exact same pressure was being applied.

Shane

I keep wondering why when the topic is requesting information pertaining to Festool Orbital Sanders: people are taking about hand sanding?  Call me pedantic!  [tongue]

 

[AlexThePalex]

Does anyone have any experience or data showing sandpaper lasts longer with dust extraction?

No scientific data here, but lots of experience: paper lasts a lot longer with dust extraction. It's also simply logical, the more material you leave on the surface to clog up your paper, the faster it's going to happen.

Thanks.  Is there a Festool sandpaper line that is designed for improved use without extraction?

Yeah, all of them.

 

[Cheese]

[member=30865]Phoenix[/member]
Here's a quote on page 2 from the Festool 2011 Abrasives Brochure.

"Festool Jetstream technology reduces the surface temperature, which is one of many reasons why our abrasives last up to 30% longer. With our patented Jetstream pad design, air flows trough an additional hole in the center of the pad, moving dust to the outer holes where it is vacuumed up. The continuous air flow significantly improves dust extraction, pre- vents debris accumulation, clogging and increases abrasive life. When sanding dust is removed from the sanding surface, the abrasive wears more evenly and will last longer. Longer abrasive life and more reliable work results mean you spend less time sanding and achieve better results. With Festool’s Jetstream technology and efficient dust extraction, Festool abrasives give you better results and save you both time and money."

And here's a quote from the 3M Abrasives group.

"Discs cut and last longer when dust isn’t loading the cutting surface of the abrasives. It’s that simple. And reducing dust is easier than ever with 3MTM Clean Sanding Discs.
Featuring 3M-patented, precise multi-hole patterns, these discs can evacuate dust better than 5- or 6-hole products — dramatically increasing disclife. Cut isn’t compromised as the design achieves an ideal balance between abrasive and dust-extraction holes."

 

[ear3]

There's just no substitute for dust extraction when it comes to abrasives life.

That's the money shot.