Festool, woodworking and low back pain

[Stan Tillinghast]

I’m sure many of you have problems with low back pain, it’s almost universal to some degree as we get older. I have lumbar spinal stenosis and also arthritis in the lower spine; my symptoms are just low back pain, not sciatica or other neurological symptoms. Clearly made worse by lifting and twisting.
After years of moving around when I couldn’t have a decent shop, I am setting up a workshop in part of our 3-car garage (space can vary from 1 to 3 bays if needed). I’m planning first to build cabinets for the workshop, then for the house: bookcases, storage cabinets, eventually maybe bathroom and kitchen cabinets.
I got into the Festool addiction years ago before the back problems showed up; but it turns out that using the track saw as opposed to moving sheet goods around a table saw; and other aspects of Festool operations seem to me to be as good a way as any of doing woodworking with back pain.

My question for those of you who have been dealing with this is: do you have any specific tips or recommendations in terms of work flow, storage, specific tools, specific “must-not-do” actions that you have found important?

For example, I’m contemplating ordering an STM 1800 to make it easier to move sheet goods from vehicle to workshop then ripping on the table. If it makes it possible to continue to do woodworking, then the expense is really secondary. One thing I like is the adjustable work height; it’s not clear what is the optimal height for me but I think given adjustability I could work that out.

Perhaps this has already been hashed out in other threads, or perhaps YouTube videos; if so please post a link.

I’ve found advice here on FOG very valuable if expensive. Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Alanbach]

My most important change regarding this area is the implementation of mandatory stretching pre-work session. I try to stretch my lower back and hamstrings before I enter my shop and once there I do some more limbering up before beginning. It really makes a world of difference if you are diligent about it. Also foam or gel mats In the areas where you stand the most. I have also changed some of my workflow to work pieces down to smaller sizes that are easier to handle, earlier in the process, even if it is not the most efficient method or the method that I am used to.

I also purchased Jessem’s TS stock guides. They make wrestling large pieces in the table saw easier when I have to handle large pieces in the TS (When I can’t or don’t want to use the track saw).

 

[Vtshopdog]

Cabinets = big and heavy, get help moving those!  Obviously observe all the usual lift with your legs, don’t twist etc.

I suffered debilitating back pain in the 90’s.  Perhaps off topic, but for me the cure was not avoiding activities and motions but doing the hard work to build up my core strength - particularly oblique and intercostal muscles.  (I think of my core muscles as something akin to duct tape keeping the load off my messed up spine...) Took about 9 months, but well worth it as I’m generally pain free for last 20 years.  A visit to a good PT and then actually doing the exercises they recommend might be good long term solution. (My PT friends tell me most patients don’t do the work and hence don’t get the benefits, funny how that works)

Have had really good luck with a Bosu Ball to do all sorts of crunches without loading my lower spinehttps://www.bosu.com/

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

Many thanks for the specific advice regarding stretching and exercises.
Before the Lockdown I was working out at the gym 3x a week with a trainer; we were working on core and back strengthening, and I did not need any back procedures (steroid injections or nerve ablation) done for a year and a half. Was able to walk, work pretty much without pain.
Now without the exercise my back is worse.

Cabinets: yes, I can and will hire help for installation when the time comes. The garage cabinets will be built in place, probably with KD/RTA hardware a la the Chaos Wall.

One piece of equipment I expect to be helpful is an electric hoist mounted above the center of the garage. Right now I’ve used it to lift stuff into the attic loft for storage, but it can be used to help move sheet goods, etc.

I plan to get either mats or, ideally, a complete floor with rubber padding. Also need to plan to do some work sitting on a stool.

I have a Bosu ball, will look into using it for crunches, thanks!

 

[DeformedTree]

The STM1800 appeals to folks primarily for saving backs, it should help a lot.

Tall work bench/tables.  It's amazing the difference with things at MFT height verses typical work on saw horses or folding tables, how much that height difference works.

Lighter tools, portable tools.  Even if you don't move them much, buying tools designed to be moved around is a big help.  I will also say the low weight of systainers helps, and they make doing it in a couple trips if needed easy, and or sys-carts.

 

[bigshaw929]

I was forced to retire from the Navy due to my back and loss of motion/strength in my right leg. The big thing that has helped me is having taller work benches so I don’t have to bend.

Don’t want to give much other advise when it comes to back issues everyone has reactions differently to different exercises and stretches. Heck, if I stretch I can barely walk for 30 min. I wouldn’t wish back issues on anyone. Good luck and I hope it gets better.

Bill

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[pettyconstruction]

Weekly chiropractor visits and the advice of a strong core is great.
I suffer from low back pain but it goes away when I do my crunches and sit ups, with weekly chiropractor trips and monthly massage therapy.
Getting old is not for the week, although my back has been bad since I was a teen
Cheers, Charlie

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

As Charlotte would say, “Some Pig!”

 

[Alanbach]

You mentioned an electric hoist and that made me think of something. I have seen adjustable height (hydraulic) tables/carts that are powered or manual that are used by some for a variety of tasks around the shop. Felder makes a fancy expensive one and there are others. They probably require a pretty large shop with a lot of room to move around freely to help you much but just a thought.

 

[Stan Tillinghast]

I have a 72 inch Husky heavy duty mobile workbench with adjustable top; but on the six inch casters the lowest level is 38 in. That’s 3 inches higher than MFT height. Removing the casters or replacing with smaller ones—or building a rig like what is used for grand pianos, where there is a weight-bearing plate at ground level and casters are outside the sides of the box—would be a big hassle.
I think I’m going with the MST 1800 which adjusts in height from about 27 1/2 to 35 1/2.
I have thought about getting one of the work tables from HD that has adjustable height top, but don’t know if there will be room in the shop for that. Advantage would be to do some tasks sitting down in a regular height chair.

 

[CeeJay]

I also suffer from chronic lower back pain.

A few things I’ve found help:

Workbench design and built to correct height. About 935mm is best for me. Particularly for hand planing I’ve found this is really important.

Stretching and exercise. If I do my exercises and gym regularly the back behaves much better. If I stop it gets ugly real quick. Swimming really helps.

Cabinets on lockable casters. Easy to move around.

If you need a hand ask for it. Installing my bandsaw for instance - needed a second pair of hands so called a mate and paid in beers.

If I get ‘the twinge’ I pack up and lie down. No such thing as powering through - once it’s gone it’s gone.

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[Birdhunter]

Two suggestions.

First, a shop stool that swivels and has adjustable height. Being off my feet while working at my bench really helps.

Second, a Vac Sys. This work holding device is especially useful sanding pieces. I can move the wood. Being sanded to just about any position while seated.

 

[fshanno]

I don't buy plywood until I'm ready to cut.  I set up in the driveway. 

I back the pickup in.  I set up my rip station right behind the tailgate of the pickup.  In my case it's that Centipede folding workstation with a 2" thick sheet of Styrofoam on top.

The crosscut station is setup right behind the rip station.  My crosscut station is an old MFT 1080.  I have extensions on it to handle 8'x2' pieces. 

I set up my nesting pattern to bias toward long rips so mostly I'm making 8' rips with my long guide.

I slide a sheet off of the stack in the pickup bed onto the ripping station.  I make a rip.  I slide the ripped piece - usually 23 1/4" x 96" - onto the crosscut station and make the cross cuts. 

This minimizes lifting large pieces.  Most often the largest piece I will have to lift and carry is 23 1/4" wide by around 3' in long - the deck for some base units. 

For pantry units and for refrigerator surrounds and some closet stuff there is the occasional large piece.  But I try never to have partitions.  Break the cases up into smaller parts whenever there is going to be a fixed partition.  You'd be surprised how little extra material this amounts to.  I like to use applied end panels so I don't have to worry about tall case sides.  Plus, don't over build built-ins.  Go with 1/2" ply were possible and 1/4" backs.

STM 1800 looks like an awesome piece of equipment and I see it replacing my Centipede at the rip station.

 

[JimD]

I started doing pushups and situps every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday when I was in my 40s.  I am now 64 and continue doing them.  My back gets sore if I am on my feet all day and/or lift heavy things too much but normally doesn't give me trouble.  My doctor says my exercises are not recommended but they work for me.

But you didn't ask for exercise advice.  While I can lift 3/4 sheet goods without pain I'd rather not.  One end of my shop has a garage door and I can back my pickup to this door, slide plywood onto the cutting table, and cut it to size with my track saw.  If I store it before cutting it up, I can store a few sheets behind the cutting station and minimize handling.  My cutting station is also my outfeed table and assembly table.  It is a 3x7 foot surface 38 inches high.  It has two levels of top (Ron Paulk idea) and 20mm holes in the top.  I can cross cut on it up to about 31 inches wide using rail dogs in my track saw track and either dogs or a fence to slide the work against.  I would not want to go back to cutting full sheets of plywood on a table saw.  With the right equipment it is probably OK but I think a track saw has a lot to offer for this work.  It works best with some sort of holey work surface (i.e. Paulk, MFT, or home made equivalent). 

 

[JonathanJung]

Hydraulic lift table. Man, is it nice to work at. Get things in/out of the truck, move materials around the shop, and adjust easily to what height is best for ergonomics. I got the 1000lb Harbor Freight and added a 2'x4' torsion box bench top that added an additional 10".

You can see it in the photo, it's become a central part of my shop.

 

[grbmds]

I'm sure that the STM1800 will help a lot with sheet goods. If you are building other shop furniture and work tables, try to find the height that just fits you. When I built my workbench I  spent a lot of time trying to determine what height was best for me to avoid bending over for long periods while routing, sanding, etc. That helps a lot. So, other than the exercise and stretching related recommendations, I'd say that making your work surfaces at the height which is comfortable for you probably will make a significant difference in how the work in your shop affects your back.

 

[Bob D.]

Nice Jonathan,

but I'd say that wall dragon is the focal point of your shop.  [scared]

But looking at it again maybe I'm seeing the tail end of a whale. Can you show the complete mural.

 

[Michael Kellough]

[member=67785]JonathanJung[/member] which lift table is that? I want to see the flying whale too.

 

[JonathanJung]

[member=67785]JonathanJung[/member] which lift table is that? I want to see the flying whale too.

Nice Jonathan,

but I'd say that wall dragon is the focal point of your shop.  [scared]

But looking at it again maybe I'm seeing the tail end of a whale. Can you show the complete mural.

Haha, [member=60461]Bob D.[/member] the mural is huge but I didn't realize it was in the photo! My wife drew it, it was actually in the shop before most of my tools! It's a humpback whale with the Olympic Mountains (two things our area is known for).

As a suggestion to the OP, all my benches, including this miter saw wall, are 40" high. Keeps my back straight and shoulders back. I'm 6'.

[attachimg=1]

[member=297]Michael Kellough[/member], This is the cart. I'd quite happily have two more. One for infeed material handling, one for outfeed, and one for working on.
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...t-60438.html&usg=AOvVaw1r1e8_StEeYMLgrj-qu05p

 

[ThisVeteranVlog]

I'm still a young buck by many standards (36) but after 17 years in the military have acquired some herniated discs that do make certain tasks painful.

I keep my work surfaces high to prevent me from bending over, although the MFT height hasn't given me issue yet. I purchased the VAC-SYS specifically to help alleviate bending over when sanding, domino-ing, etc. I mount it to my assemble table, which keeps the work piece around elbow level. I can also keep the piece at an angle towards me to prevent excessive bending over.

Hope this helps.