Files & filing

[rmwarren]

Blindly charging into yet another rabbit hole...

I probably have more files than I need but it's a collection that's grown haphazardly over ~40 years or so. Many are likely older than I am yet few are dulled or have been abused. That said, there are gaps and overlap in size and cut I'd like to address.

Today I was whacking away at some 1/4" aluminum and paid more attention to the process than is normal, which made me think I need some AL specific files and/or new techniques. 

I stumbled across a couple tomes I'll link to when I'm back in the office, & some sage advice from old guys with aircraft related backgrounds. In the meantime, anyone have any wisdom to share?

Thanks in advance. 

RMW

 

[Tinker]

I have files on top of files. All are filed alphabetical. I am lousy speller. I loose files because I am lousy speller.

My wife has no education beyond beyond 1 year of high school. (We were dropping bombs on her home town in 1944 & 1945) She has a drawer that she files all of our business papers into. I don't know how she does it, but anytime I request paper, she disappears into the other room, she comes back in a few minutes with the specific page I asked for.

My mother was a bookkeeper. Her dad was a bookkeeper. She was not as efficient as my wife. Go figure.

I'm anxiously awaiting for any advice to your query.
Tinker

 

[Cheese]

Nicholson makes files that are specifically for lathe use, they give a better finish and don’t load up as easily. They also don’t have teeth on the edges to prevent accidents.

 

[rmwarren]

I have files on top of files. All are filed alphabetical. I am lousy speller. I loose files because I am lousy speller.

My wife has no education beyond beyond 1 year of high school. (We were dropping bombs on her home town in 1944 & 1945) She has a drawer that she files all of our business papers into. I don't know how she does it, but anytime I request paper, she disappears into the other room, she comes back in a few minutes with the specific page I asked for.

My mother was a bookkeeper. Her dad was a bookkeeper. She was not as efficient as my wife. Go figure.

I'm anxiously awaiting for any advice to your query.
Tinker

Always make me smile when you contribute your [2cents] Wayne.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

So some info on files/filing:

KMS File Chart

Companion KMS files web page

Nicholson Guide to Files & Filing

And somewhere (can't find the link) some old aerospace guys commented that chalk or soapstone will prevent AL clogging files and that lightly keeping pressure on the back stroke will also clear AL from the teeth. I know the latter will toss fuel on the fire, but I'm going to try it.

RMW

 

[Bob D.]

"anyone have any wisdom to share?"

If you find your file is loading up try rubbing some soapstone on the file. Yes, a lot will fall right out but down deep it will keep the AL or other soft metal from clogging up your teeth.

Next time you are at Fazzios look in the old hardware store for file handles. They used to have hundreds of them in all the sizes for good prices. I bought a bunch years ago for $.50 and $.75 each. I believe they were Lutz brand, good quality. Probably came from some company toolroom they bought out or the Navy yard in Philly when some contractor left at the end of a project.

 

[rmwarren]

"anyone have any wisdom to share?"

If you find your file is loading up try rubbing some soapstone on the file. Yes, a lot will fall right out but down deep it will keep the AL or other soft metal from clogging up your teeth.

Next time you are at Fazzios look in the old hardware store for file handles. They used to have hundreds of them in all the sizes for good prices. I bought a bunch years ago for $.50 and $.75 each. I believe they were Lutz brand, good quality. Probably came from some company toolroom they bought out or the Navy yard in Philly when some contractor left at the end of a project.

Didn't think of Fazzio for file handles, thanks, I "needed" a reason to head over there... Were they in the front area or deep in the catacombs past the bolt room?

Making a list of files to order from Corradi (I have several of their files & rasps, great value) and noticed their handles now start at $8, which is about half the cost of the file itself. < a buck is better.

Thanks.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

Nicholson makes files that are specifically for lathe use, they give a better finish and don’t load up as easily. They also don’t have teeth on the edges to prevent accidents.

Thanks, I think they are equivalent to European Cut 0, which I'm leaning towards buying from Corradi. I discovered a few minutes ago that I have one from a previous order and it was the aggressive file I was using on my project earlier. Scale of Cut Chart/Comparison

[attachimg=1]

Like the lathe file there is one smooth edge.

Thanks,

RMW

 

[Bob D.]

Used to be if you went in the front door then turned right toward the bolt room there is an isle to your right along the outside wall. They were in some bins down low below waist level. That was probably 5 years ago so no promises there are still there.

 

[Vtshopdog]

I was a ski tech for decades, we use a lot of files.
Hard chrome plated files like these Viialas last longer, cut better and don’t load up like hardware store files. Icecut brand are nice too.
https://www.tognar.com/viiala-hard-chrome-mill-files-2nd-cut/

 

[rvieceli]

Richard

Harry Epstein has a bunch of Lutz handles.
https://www.harryepstein.com/tool-brand/lutz.html?product_list_limit=50

Pferd makes a line of files as well that are nice.
https://www.pferd.com/se-en/products/files/

Ron

 

[Cheese]

Here are a couple of very revealing photos.

A Nicholson bastard and Nicholson lathe file comparison. The sharp angle of the teeth on the lathe file is obvious.

[attachimg=1]

Here's a Nicholson Magicut file in the middle known for its sharp tooth angle, but there is still no comparison to the lathe file. I like the Magicut for use on hardwoods rather than a rasp. It removes material quickly but produces a smooth finish.

[attachimg=2]

 

[rmwarren]

[member=44099]Cheese[/member] thanks for the photo comparison.

The Magicut is intriguing. I'm leaning towards a selection of the Corradi Swiss pattern files since I have one and know it works well for my use, which will be mostly AL. I may grab a Magicut off Amazon first to test it out though.

Oddly, I seldom file wood, although I do use rasps on organic stuff like walking sticks culled from deadwood I find on a section of our beach. I have a couple Shinto rasps that chew through wood & fingertips pretty efficiently, as well as several old USA made rasps & a couple finer Corradi. Rasps are how I first stumbled across them, prices are fair and shipping is DHL air.

[member=3192]rvieceli[/member] Ron Pferd puzzles me, they are making an obvious effort to market themselves on YT, but for the life of me it's damnably hard to actually buy anything from them other than one-off stuff on Amazon. Am I missing something obvious?

I may grab a handful of the Lutz handles from Epstein, I always forget about them. [member=60461]Bob D.[/member] no luck @ Fazzios today, but, you know, they had other stuff I needed...

I did apply some soapstone to the Corradi to see how that works, that technique was mentioned repeatedly in searches about filing AL.

[member=68668]Vtshopdog[/member] the ski files are interesting, never knew hard chrome files were a thing.

Need to study the options for size/cut some more, it'd be nice to have a logical progression to work through rather than grabbing the next less aggressive file regardless of size, like I do now.

Thanks for the input.

RMW

 

[Cheese]

Richard, I like the Magicut for aluminum, plastic & hardwood. I know there are machinists that utilize this file as an all-arounder but I like the file too much to use it on steel...I have other bastards  [smile]  that I use for that punishment.

 

[rvieceli]

Richard

Amazon currently has a fairly decent selection of Pferd stuff.

Files
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pferd+file&crid=21XH9HYBDWZWN&sprefix=pferd%2Caps%2C219&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_2_5

Everything
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pferd&crid=1019S8NHNCEVT&sprefix=pferd,aps,235&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

Or try your favorite industrial supply house, although ZORO seems to out of stock on most stuff

MSC
https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn?mscNew=true&searchterm=Pferd&hdrsrh=true&rd=k

Ron

 

[rmwarren]

Richard

Amazon currently has a fairly decent selection of Pferd stuff.

Files
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pferd+file&crid=21XH9HYBDWZWN&sprefix=pferd%2Caps%2C219&ref=nb_sb_ss_ts-doa-p_2_5

Everything
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pferd&crid=1019S8NHNCEVT&sprefix=pferd,aps,235&ref=nb_sb_noss_1

Or try your favorite industrial supply house, although ZORO seems to out of stock on most stuff

MSC
https://www.mscdirect.com/browse/tn?mscNew=true&searchterm=Pferd&hdrsrh=true&rd=k

Ron

Thanks Ron, it must be me. I'll admit Amazon drives me nuts with their "helpful" suggestions for things similar to with I actually want & asked for.

When they acquired Small Parts it looked like they were instituting a structured search there you could drill to what you were looking for, but alas. McMaster nailed it search-wise, IMHO.

I'll look at it again.

RMW

 

[rmwarren]

Richard, I like the Magicut for aluminum, plastic & hardwood. I know there are machinists that utilize this file as an all-arounder but I like the file too much to use it on steel...I have other bastards  [smile]  that I use for that punishment.

I feel you, steel can be evil to cutting tools.

While I'm griping about things, why do American patter file taper commonly at the end? Swiss pattern/Euro files seem to mostly be straight for their full length.

RMW 

 

[Packard]

When i read the title of this thread I thought, “A discussion on secretarial practices?  Strange.”

A little bit of a sidebar.  This about filing on wood.

A “Pattern Maker” wood rasp cuts about twice as fast as a conventional wood rasp.  When I moved, my pattern maker file went into hiding.  (And has remained hidden for 25 years.)

I don’t have frequent need for a wood rasp, but if I did, I would immediately go out and get a pattern maker’s file. 

Also, a farriers rasp is interesting.  It has an extremely aggressive tooth pattern and removes material very quickly, albeit leaving a very rough surface that likely will have to be smoothed afterwards. 

I never had one of these, but if you have an application that requires fast material removal and greater control than using a angle grinder with a rasp attachment, then this might be an answer.

Not only does it cut faster, it leaves a smoother finish.

 

[rmwarren]

When i read the title of this thread I thought, “A discussion on secretarial practices?  Strange.”

A little bit of a sidebar.  This about filing on wood.

A “Pattern Maker” wood rasp cuts about twice as fast as a conventional wood rasp.  When I moved, my pattern maker file went into hiding.  (And has remained hidden for 25 years.)

I don’t have frequent need for a wood rasp, but if I did, I would immediately go out and get a pattern maker’s file. 

Also, a farriers rasp is interesting.  It has an extremely aggressive tooth pattern and removes material very quickly, albeit leaving a very rough surface that likely will have to be smoothed afterwards. 

I never had one of these, but if you have an application that requires fast material removal and greater control than using a angle grinder with a rasp attachment, then this might be an answer.

Not only does it cut faster, it leaves a smoother finish.

You & [member=550]Tinker[/member] apparently... the subject could have been clearer.

A person can do considerable damage with a rasp. These are the some of the ones I mentioned earlier, the large Smith rasp is 20" OAL, the business section is 14".

[attachimg=1]

It'll draw blood if used for more than 5-10 minutes without gloves...

First 3 from the left are all Corradi Irudium, which I highly recommend.

RMW

 

[Bob D.]

"...[member=60461]Bob D.[/member] no luck @ Fazzios today.."

I am using all the ones I bought or I would be glad to give you what I have left. I think I bought a dozen in various sizes and paid less than $12 for the bunch.

The old hardware store is not what it used to be. No more 'treasures' to be discovered when you visit. I am sure none of that stuff was paying it's own way with regard to the floor space it took up but it was like a time machine sometimes going in there and finding something out of production for 20 years or that odd bearing or fastener. I miss the old Fazzios mostly for the metal scrap sheds but the industrial supply store is nice too. With higher prices to match. :-(